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  1. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    Was the self driving system supposed to keep it from hitting a tractor trailer or not? I'm not familiar with it's claimed capabilities.
    It's supposed to have object avoidance assistance but still tells the driver that they're supposed to keep their hands on the wheel because it's not a complete solution that can replace the driver's eyes. Every time you activate the feature, a window pops up telling you exactly that.

    /edit/
    I mean, people are excited for the day they can be a passenger, alone in their car, and have the car do the work. Especially early-adopters, I'm sure, who are the most eager for the technology. People should not let that eagerness push them to making premature decisions though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post
    It's supposed to have object avoidance assistance but still tells the driver that they're supposed to keep their hands on the wheel because it's not a complete solution that can replace the driver's eyes. Every time you activate the feature, a window pops up telling you exactly that.

    /edit/
    I mean, people are excited for the day they can be a passenger, alone in their car, and have the car do the work. Especially early-adopters, I'm sure, who are the most eager for the technology. People should not let that eagerness push them to making premature decisions though.
    Sitting in the back seat drinking a beer while the car takes you home from work...sign me up.

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  5. #803
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    Facts of the matter are, whether or not the "driver" was supposed to be on the lookout...... The car's own system did NOT sense the obstruction.

    Tesla knew, or should have known, that trailers are not low to the ground, and should have had their system looking for anything that any part of the car could hit. Obviously an overpass is topologically the same thing, but measurement-wise, very very different in an obviously dangerous way. That should have been part of the system. Nothing I have seen so far describes whether the driver took ANY evasive action, or hit the brakes. He may have, after determining that the car has failed to "see" the truck, but it may have been too late then. It may have become apparent that nothing was happening so late that stopping was not possible.

    The apparent fact that the car "drove" under and kept going indicates it MAY not have been over-ridden, OR the dead driver's foot may have been stuck on the pedal.

    My question is, what's the difference between the Tesla system and a cruise control, IF you still need to be just as alert as if you had it on ordinary cruise control? Could be called a deceptively described system, and they may be liable. We'll see. No need to dispute it now, I know various folks will have opinions that differ according to their personal preferences and desires.

    I expect this transition to be bloody and unpleasant for a while, until it is figured out that the vehicles ALL need to be controlled from a central computer. PLUS they need to look for obstructions. THAT has a chance of working, but it should be a city-core taxi system.

  6. #804
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    I heard via NPR on the radio this morning that the driver was watching a movie on the console screen when the incident occurred. Or at least... a movie was playing. I guess I don't know what the driver was doing specifically while the movie played.

    I don't know that Tesla is really liable for anything since they don't claim the car is safe to ignore, and they go out of their way to remind you of it constantly.

    I think the main thing is people don't want to accept what it /can/ do, and want it to do whatever they imagine it /should/ do. Lots of lawsuits go that way over lots of things. Sometimes they fault the company for what I think is the fault of a lazy or stupid consumer... which might happen in this case, too. I'm sure we'll hear about it.

  7. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mud View Post
    Was the self driving system supposed to keep it from hitting a tractor trailer or not? I'm not familiar with it's claimed capabilities.
    Well, technically, the truck driver was supposed to prevent the accident by not turning left in front of of a car approaching at high speed. There's even a law to that effect.

    In the last week I've driven 1500 miles and witnessed a LOT of mistakes committed by truck drivers, including cutting cars off, swerving across multiple lanes and turning left in front of cars; All of these required emergency responses from one or more car drivers.

    My favorite was the logging truck that was creating it's own dust storm as the dirt was blown off the newly harvested trees. I slowed and followed at a good distance, only to narrowly miss being hit by a second logging truck that tried to pull in behind the first one a mile later. They could not see me as they pulled into the moving dust storm.

    Sadly, an incident such as this will spawn regulations for self driving cars will require that they perform at a much higher level of perfection than the mediocre drivers that they would replace. In my 1500 mile trip I'm sure that I broke dozens of laws and made hundreds of mistakes. My experience driving next to a Google car on city streets and California Freeways was that they were better drivers than most. Very predictable too.

    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbsuthe View Post
    Well, technically, the truck driver was supposed to prevent the accident by not turning left in front of of a car approaching at high speed. There's even a law to that effect.

    In the last week I've driven 1500 miles and witnessed a LOT of mistakes committed by truck drivers, including cutting cars off, swerving across multiple lanes and turning left in front of cars; All of these required emergency responses from one or more car drivers.

    My favorite was the logging truck that was creating it's own dust storm as the dirt was blown off the newly harvested trees. I slowed and followed at a good distance, only to narrowly miss being hit by a second logging truck that tried to pull in behind the first one a mile later. They could not see me as they pulled into the moving dust storm.

    Sadly, an incident such as this will spawn regulations for self driving cars will require that they perform at a much higher level of perfection than the mediocre drivers that they would replace. In my 1500 mile trip I'm sure that I broke dozens of laws and made hundreds of mistakes. My experience driving next to a Google car on city streets and California Freeways was that they were better drivers than most. Very predictable too.

    Dan
    If that's really true, please stay off the roads.

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    I think if people honestly saw how many laws they broke when they drove, they'd be flabbergasted. Failing to signal a lane change, not hitting your turn signal when in a right-turn-only lane. Not signaling a lane change when merging from an on-ramp onto the highway. Following too close. Forgetting to turn your headlights on when it's bright outside but sprinkling enough to make you turn on the intermittent wipers. Failure to stay in your lane (any time you hear a rumble strip, you broke a law). Going 5 mph over the speed limit. Lots of little things we accept as normal every-day norms but are technically illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNieman View Post
    I heard via NPR on the radio this morning that the driver was watching a movie on the console screen when the incident occurred. Or at least... a movie was playing. I guess I don't know what the driver was doing specifically while the movie played.

    I don't know that Tesla is really liable for anything since they don't claim the car is safe to ignore, and they go out of their way to remind you of it constantly.

    I think the main thing is people don't want to accept what it /can/ do, and want it to do whatever they imagine it /should/ do. Lots of lawsuits go that way over lots of things. Sometimes they fault the company for what I think is the fault of a lazy or stupid consumer... which might happen in this case, too. I'm sure we'll hear about it.
    I suppose that if idiots are going to watch movies and text while driving, then the "self-driving" and collision avoidance are much better than a totally oblivious driver. The statistics are that "distracted driving" (cellphones, texting, playing with the idiotic touchcreen panels on the dash, etc), are now more of a hazard than drunk drivers. The rude aggressive drivers don't bother me, at least they're paying attention, the distracted ones (a very high percentage now) are extremely dangerous.

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    It's not really a self-driving car like the Goggle ones and was not advertised or sold as such.
    More of assisted driving but you can't fix stupid which is why you don't see this mode in other autos.
    With a system that works 98-99% of the time the driver becomes complacent. It's that last 1-2 or even 0.01 percentage points.
    These things will happen. Engineers and designers will learn from it.
    Bob

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    "Well, technically, the truck driver was supposed to prevent the accident by not turning left in front of of a car approaching at high speed. There's even a law to that effect. "

    Technically?

    THis is what's got me flummoxed. If the guy had been driving a Volvo and the truck violated his right-of-way by doing the
    classic left-turn without looking, and the volvo crashed into the truck and killed the volvo driver, the incident would have
    been a one-line nothing-burger in the local paper.

    Trucker fucks up, kills car driver.

    Car's a tesla? Ah, that makes it different. Tesla's fault of course.

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    Watching Harry Potter,yet!!

    Car could not distinguish between the white trailer and the whitish overcast sky.

  18. #812
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    Looks like an even longer wait for a $35,000 model 3.

    Tesla Delays Model 3 Delivery Dates for Anxious Would-Be Drivers - Bloomberg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    Looks like an even longer wait for a $35,000 model 3.

    Tesla Delays Model 3 Delivery Dates for Anxious Would-Be Drivers - Bloomberg
    What is it with right wingers and Tesla? I just don't get it. I guess they were the same ones protecting the buggy whip industry in 1908.

    dee
    ;-D

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsipo View Post
    What is it with right wingers and Tesla? I just don't get it. I guess they were the same ones protecting the buggy whip industry in 1908.

    dee
    ;-D
    ???

    What does right/left wing have to do with Tesla's inability to deliver results? In 5 years we will know if Musk is an automotive visionary or huckster. But so far he has been able to deliver on many more of his SpaceX promises than his Tesla promises.

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  22. #815
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    The tsla self-driving or autopilot etc tech has had little news and seemingly no development for a year or so.

    Obviously they are working at it and 900M$ / yr in rd money gets you results eventually.

    Likewise, people leaving are typical of Mr Musk .. much as I like his stuff I think and feel he is exactly the kind of person I would not like to work with. I may be wrong.


    I think EM is brilliant .. fwiw ..
    and an excellent crisis manger.

    I feel that the tsla self-driving stuff gets better, probably excellent, at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbent View Post
    ???

    What does right/left wing have to do with Tesla's inability to deliver results? In 5 years we will know if Musk is an automotive visionary or huckster. But so far he has been able to deliver on many more of his SpaceX promises than his Tesla promises.
    Yes, what it has everything to do with is the claim that soon everyone will be able to buy a $35,000 Tesla. Many critics doubt that Musk's business model could ever support selling large numbers of base vehicles and even the much more expensive models have razor thin margins.

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    Musk is a con man, .......and there will come a day when the whole lot crumbles to dust, ...........just like Enron, and all the other big failures, .........when the investment bankers etc etc etc will say ''well we never saw that coming'' and shaft the tax payer for the losses.

    Personally I just wish he'd f'k off in to space on one of his own rockets, never to return.

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  26. #818
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    Just checking the traffic report for my commute home. Earlier today on the northbound 15 freeway between San Bernardino and Victorville (middle of the Cajon Pass), a Tesla sedan was involved in some kind of mysterious accident. Driving along minding his own, when suddenly the hood blew open and smoke billowed from the engine compartment. No other vehicles involved. He made it to the emergency shoulder and is now awaiting Tesla Roadside assistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwbolton View Post
    Just checking the traffic report for my commute home. Earlier today on the northbound 15 freeway between San Bernardino and Victorville (middle of the Cajon Pass), a Tesla sedan was involved in some kind of mysterious accident. Driving along minding his own, when suddenly the hood blew open and smoke billowed from the engine compartment. No other vehicles involved. He made it to the emergency shoulder and is now awaiting Tesla Roadside assistance.
    Oh my god...a car broke down

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  29. #820
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    If you don't like tesla's put it onto of a rocket and send it to Mars! I heard that one's battery was only going to last eight hours playing the radio. Not that anyone could hear it playing in a vacuum.
    Bill D


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