Is there anyone here who builds custom engines? I would like to build a prototype - Page 14
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  1. #261
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    300K miles at 55MPH takes about 5500 hours.

    5500hours is about 60% of one year.

    Most vehicles will do 55MPH at 2000RPM (or less).

    So....is it really that impressive that an engine can run at 2000RPM for a little over half a year?

    An electric motor will run at 100% load and 100% RPM, continuously, for 20 or 30 years.

    So you see....we pay quite a price for the ability to run without a power cord....

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    OT: not about what the Op is talking about.

    QT: [An electric motor will run at 100% load and 100% RPM, continuously, for 20 or 30 years.]
    Perhaps one might in a shop but in a car perhaps not (?)..likely the battery would not last 300K miles at about 15/20k a year.

    QT battery life: The lithium-ion battery pack in the Tesla Roadster is projected to have a lifespan of about 5 years or 100,000 miles.

    Another writing: Last week, Wired noted that Tesla was filing patents for a new breed of lithium-ion batteries that could last for a million miles in their cars. The key appears to be a re-formulation or tweaking of the lithium-ion recipe.
    Last edited by michiganbuck; 01-03-2020 at 02:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I never, ever take you seriously sir !
    Hey!

    How about that...... it's what I was goin' for all along.

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    Smokey Yunick worked for both Ford and GM for years doing development work and also developed the hot vapor cycle engine over a lifetime, and was unable to get a major manufacturer to purchase the rights to it and it was fully developed. That included 3 running prototypes in cars. And you think as a wet behind the ears Engineer you can out think the OEM's .Good luck with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SVE Performance View Post
    Smokey Yunick worked for both Ford and GM for years doing development work and also developed the hot vapor cycle engine over a lifetime, and was unable to get a major manufacturer to purchase the rights to it and it was fully developed. That included 3 running prototypes in cars. And you think as a wet behind the ears Engineer you can out think the OEM's .Good luck with that.
    Seems there were more than just 3 https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp...-vapor-engine/

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    My comment is not a pro-electric car comment but rather a 'machinery' comment....anything with a crank/piston engine is not gonna be that durable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    ....anything with a crank/piston engine is not gonna be that durable.
    The Eureka went 66 years before a failure, and she'd be easy to fix even now.

    Not sure how you'd build a walking-beam v8 tho

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post

    What bullshit. 2600 degree F combustion temperature? Anyone checked the melting point of cast iron lately? Even combustion turbines are less than 2000 degrees F.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    What bullshit. 2600 degree F combustion temperature? Anyone checked the melting point of cast iron lately? Even combustion turbines are less than 2000 degrees F.

    The combustion temp is not the same thing as the cylinder wall temp. And, there have been ceramic engines proposed, and even built, to allow higher wall temps so less heat is lost to the walls.

    Everyone wants a higher combustion temp, since the Carnot efficiency is improved as the starting temperature of the expanding gases is raised.

    Biggest issue is that the NOx output goes way up over something like 2200F, so the even hotter temp you reference should have it through the roof as far as NOx emissions.

    Turbines often mix bypass air in so as to reduce turbine inlet temp. Most these days also cool the turbine with bleed air through the blades. In fact, a recent commercial jet turbine failure on take-off seems to have been from that system leaking and not giving sufficient cooling. Failure occurred in less than 30 sec at full power, as I understand it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    What bullshit. 2600 degree F combustion temperature? Anyone checked the melting point of cast iron lately? Even combustion turbines are less than 2000 degrees F.
    Its a little more complicated than that.

    Using your melting point logic, how is it that nearly every car nowadays has an aluminum cylinder head when combustion temperatures are over 1200F ?

    How do diesel engines keep from melting when they have combustion temps of 2000 C?

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    I wonder if a ceramic cylinder bore and head would be good?
    SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research


    Ceramic engine.
    Why Ceramic Engines?

    I designed an internal opposed horizontal two stroke engine back in the early/mid 70s but never finished my test model..Building an engine for scratch was a bigger project than I thought. Now perhaps with CNC machining it might be less a problem.

    My buddy Phil made a device that vaporized pump gas and ran at a very high MPG, but after what he called the prime embers of the fuel were spent the residual waste cut deeply into the cost savings. Yes we told him he could not drive around town with a bomb in his car.

    One design high output early engine had the cylinder and head all one piece..now I have forgotten the name but think it was German or British. It achieved high compression ratio..Can't remember what fuel it used.

    Monobloc engine - Wikipedia

    Monobloc engine - Wikipedia

    Sweet early motorcycle engines
    early motorcycle engines - Yahoo Image Search Results

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    My comment is not a pro-electric car comment but rather a 'machinery' comment....anything with a crank/piston engine is not gonna be that durable.
    And yet there are literally millions of vehicles out there that easily go 150-250,000 miles without ever touching the bottom end. I know of several turn of the century vintage passenger cars that are still driven daily. Few people today hesitate to buy a used car with over 100k because they know they will still get many years of use out of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    Thanks for the link. Those who think that IC engines are obsolete will be very surprised when they are still here decades from now. It is not obsolete technology but government action that threatens their existence. Not only is work still being done on hot vapor engines but others are working on such things as gasoline-fueled diesel engines and even resurrecting the Wankel as mentioned in the ceramic engine link posted by michiganbuck.

    So why won’t electrics make the IC engine obsolete? Energy density.

    From the ceramic engine article:

    “Moreover hydrocarbon fuels pack at least 10 to 20 times (i.e. 1000% to 2000%) more energy than batteries and are also lighter to carry around. For instance octane has a specific energy of 12.3 kWh/kg which is roughly 18 times that of Li-SOCl2 batteries (660 Wh/kg) and 33 times that of Li-S batteries (370 Wh/kg).”

    “According to Professor Alfred Pisano of the MEMS project at the University of California at Berkeley liquid hydrocarbon fuels like butane, kerosene and propane pack at least 10 times more energy, pound for pound, than batteries do even after taking into account how inefficiently a metal IC engine burns fuel. That means an engine could be 10 times smaller than a battery and still deliver the same amount of energy. Or the engine could be the same size as a battery and last 10 times longer.”

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; while electric passenger cars can be a viable option for many people the kind of breakthrough it would take for battery operated heavy construction equipment to displace IC-engined ones is a long way off, if ever possible at all. Currently, a liquid fueled truck with an onboard diesel tank and 12v pump is used to refuel excavators, bulldozers, graders, loaders, and the like. In many cases that truck is a diesel powered pickup that also carries tools, supplies, and often an (IC powered) air compressor as well.

    While everyone raves about the highly publicized advances in electric technology the technology of IC engines has advanced continuously, raising the bar for all-electric replacements even higher.

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  18. #273
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    When I mentioned Smokey, I was thinking more if his impact on NASCAR, not the engine.

    As i recall, C&D was not impressed at the time. Making a turbocharged engine[it was a turbocharged engine] get that kind of hp/liter without meeting the EPA cycle is not that impressive. There are several ~20 year old normally aspirated engines that hit the 1.8 hp/cu in mark [Toyota 2ZZ,honda k20] and with forced induction, much higher than that.

    There are many direct injection engines out there now, and at least one gas compression ignition, and his patents are in the public domain.

    Like many things that are promising, I think this one did not work out because it did not pan out.

    Conspiracy theories aside....

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    Well I look at it this way.
    If the OP toughs it out he has made a fine introduction for himself in the forum.

    Lots of material here if we want to rib him a bit as he tools away on his various projects like the rest of us slobs.

    “Hey Metal- how’s that engine going?”
    “Still getting pings when you accelerate in the old noggin?”

    If you show up again MetalArtistCandy welcome to the forum.
    We may seem tough but in the end we are a much friendlier crowd than those bastards on a boat forum..

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    Again...my comment was NOT related to electric vehicles. It is related to 'drivers'. A combustion engine is a driver, so is an electric motor. If an electric vehicle has shortcomings, they are power source related, not driver related. The combustion engine's big hand is that it runs on a very portable power source.


    As for Smokey's hot vapour engine...back then, one of the magazines did an article on it. They were a pro-Smokey magazine, for sure, but even they summarized with a couple key points:

    1) The demo car he drove them in failed to work
    2) There were some very loud knocking noises that sounded like detonation. Smokey said it just a loose exhaust pipe. The writer noted that Smokey did expert-level work, and had several days to prepare for their visit. The idea that he didn't have the exhaust tightened was hard to swallow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalArtistCandy View Post
    To everyone else willing to help me, Thank you! I greatly appreciate the help!



    Also which lathes are good for doing a crank shaft?
    YouTube Here you go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    YouTube Here you go.
    Like to see him get that setup in his shed/garage! 😉

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    300K miles at 55MPH takes about 5500 hours.

    5500hours is about 60% of one year.

    Most vehicles will do 55MPH at 2000RPM (or less).

    So....is it really that impressive that an engine can run at 2000RPM for a little over half a year?

    An electric motor will run at 100% load and 100% RPM, continuously, for 20 or 30 years.

    So you see....we pay quite a price for the ability to run without a power cord....
    Um, what kind of logic is that?? You drive 15 hours a day?!
    If you drive 2hr / day = 730 / yr = 7.5 years to get to your 5500 number

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    [QUOTE=Scottl;3468894]
    So why won’t electrics make the IC engine obsolete? Energy density.

    Disagree. It's not energy density but rather rate of energy re-fuelling. The mass or volume density
    of modern batteries is good enough for now. The problem happens when you compare
    putting the energy back *into* the vehicle when its empty.

    How long to refuel a tesla? How long to refuel my corolla? When I put energy back into the
    corolla I handle a spigot that provides energy to the car, at a rate best measured in megawatts.

    Seriously. Work the numbers. A couple of MW.

    This is the bar that Tesla needs to jump over.

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    "Um, what kind of logic is that?? You drive 15 hours a day?!
    If you drive 2hr / day = 730 / yr = 7.5 years to get to your 5500 number "

    It's a new logic called 'math'. The point is not how much a person actually drives - it's not a people issue.

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