Tips on using a vise, stock pushed up when tightening - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 36 of 36
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    19,423
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    11784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    This is your problem.
    Can you post a picture of this vise?
    LOL!

    Are they so hard to find, now, that we have to offshore the photos to an underfunded student of information technology somewhere in Italy?

    Metalworking needs study TOO!

    Learn more?

    Make fewer errors.

    Make fewer errors, derive greater benefit.

    Sooner.

    ... and at lesser cost.

    Our enterprises are so different?

    Since when?

    And just HOW?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Alabama
    Posts
    366
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    151
    Likes (Received)
    103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Your English if fine for a Calabrese.



    You need to safely dispose of the scrap metel pretending to be a vise and the scrap metal pretending to be a mill and either.. find something less disappointing and more interesting to do with your life,

    or... book a train to the NORTH of Italy, Milano, Torino, most anywhere in Lombardia .. along the Arno.. "etc., etc.

    Because.. some of the finest machine tools this world has ever seen, and some of the of the best toolholding - vises included - were invented and manufactured right there.

    IN ITALY!!!

    You can NOT take "free advice" off the internet, shout it into the non-existent "ear" of a lump of badly designed and executed low-grade metal that it is:

    your ROYAL wish and COMMAND that;

    -- said alleged-vise "become" a Gerardi

    -- the Milling Machine Shaped Oject morph itself into a Rambaudi.

    You shall have to be more clever and subtle that that!

    You might try offering them chocolate and sexual favours?

    It will not work. They are what they are.

    But it will surely keep you out of more expensive debauchery.

    You even get to keep your ass. Well unless the scrap metal takes you UP on the perversions, anyway.

    Seriously.

    All that "pretend" crap is going to do is ruin tools, damage metal, raise risk of injury, and waste hours of your life you can never recover. The only thing it can teach you is bad habits and how to waste time at a higher cost than watching pigeon-shit petrify.

    Find something REAL, not props for a cinema production, even if it is worn-out and broken.

    Because "real" can be repaired, and more than just the one time.

    But fake can never be fixed.

    We do not even TALK about it:

    Machinery Discussion Guidelines
    HUH? What are you going off about?!?

  3. Likes D.Minnich liked this post
  4. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    2,821
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3101
    Likes (Received)
    1734

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Get real.

    Kurt AngLock? Name-brand Vertical Mill? Mill-hand was born at night, but it wasn't LAST night?

    Helps to have something to WORK WITH too, yah?

    Vise-shaped-object HE has would prolly flick the high-seated block clear into the next village first tool-flute made contact with the enemy.

    If it even waited for spindle power-on!

    It helped me get a 3ish" block square and parallel to .001" using and reasonably worn milnes miller and ratty abwood vice.
    I found the video really useful.

    EDIT:- Jeez Bill youre on form today, go to the corana virus thread and let off some steam

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    19,423
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    11784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon73 View Post
    It helped me get a 3ish" block square and parallel to .001" using and reasonably worn milnes miller and ratty abwood vice.
    I found the video really useful.

    EDIT:- Jeez Bill youre on form today, go to the corana virus thread and let off some steam
    LOL! Winding meself up, am I?

    "Worn Milnes?

    "Opening the kimono" then..

    My "shop" -- automotive and carpentry/remodeling -heavy.. was in SUCH sorry shape after years of being near-as dammit BLIND .. then rising Lazurus-like from a craft work grave with the WONDERFUL cataract lenses that gave me 20/15 vision that...

    The FIRST 4-Way TP base to enable an "arrived here BUCK NAKED!!" 10EE to get to where I could make-chip..

    Was a used Royal that needed around 3/16" milled off of each side of a central rib of the base disk/riser ..to get the height atop the compound correct.

    The only "mill" I had for it?

    A Lowes Chicom-built... "Kobalt" .. carpenter's compound miter saw!

    The "Z" axis? The miter saw's wingnut rabbeting/dado'ing "depth stop" (like HELL it was. needed ruber-bands to stay PUT off the vibration, woodchopper's carbide on hardened steel!).

    Cleaned it up with files and abrasives. And of COURSE it is a good fit! VERY!

    Then again.. not exactly my "first rodeo"..

    And right there is Stefan's problem.
    He's so new his eyes ain't even open yet!

    Well.. we ALL were.. at one time....

    ... just not THIS time...


  6. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    183
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    36

    Default

    Well Thermite has certainly earned his top billing on MY Ignore List with This Thread.
    Larry S

  7. Likes paulz, neanderthal mach, johansen liked this post
  8. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    243
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    60

    Default

    Has anyone mentioned the round stock between the work piece and the movable jaw? I saw this in a University training video and have used it to advantage on my ancient Bridgeport vise. About 2" round works best for me. The round rolls a bit as the jaw rises and the work stays in place. At least it doesn't rise as much and makes it easier to beat the piece down until I can feel the parallels tighten up.

  9. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    New Jersey
    Posts
    333
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    343
    Likes (Received)
    182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post


    Find something REAL, not props for a cinema production, even if it is worn-out and broken.

    Because "real" can be repaired, and more than just the one time.

    But fake can never be fixed.
    So very true about old quality. Usually it just needs a touch up with a stone, OR some machining to fix wear, then shimming or replacing some worn out parts.

    A low quality chineese vise can be fixed, but with a lot of work, and depending on the quality, it may still get out of shape if it wasn't properly stress relieved. They can be made better, but you will need a surface grinder, and a lot of metrology time.

  10. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,857
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5534
    Likes (Received)
    3738

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    LOL!

    Are they so hard to find, now, that we have to offshore the photos to an underfunded student of information technology somewhere in Italy?

    Metalworking needs study TOO!

    Learn more?

    Make fewer errors.

    Make fewer errors, derive greater benefit.

    Sooner.

    ... and at lesser cost.

    Our enterprises are so different?

    Since when?

    And just HOW?
    In order to give this person the best advice, we need to know what he's working with. Maybe his definition of a machinist vise is just some shitty clapped out drill press vise?
    You're making less sense than usual (and that saying a lot).

  11. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, UK
    Posts
    21,283
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    16661
    Likes (Received)
    17337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    It pays well. VERY!

    Piss-off one guy out of a thousand who will get TF off his one ASS and go beat your game? Humanity advances. 999 passengers drop a coin into his fare box and get to enjoy the ride.

    Kiss a thousand asses?
    Humanity degenerates. Everybody TRIES to collect. But NOBODY rides.

    Darwinian thing.

    I LIKE living in a world of better men than I.
    Not worse.

    Gives one hope for a healthier FUTURE! Happier, safer and more prosperous, even.

    So I run what I f****g got.

    All seven of 'em...

    What are the five thinking styles? Understanding synthesists, idealists, pragmatists, analysts, and realists - Thriveworks

    Why do you think / assume I was referring to you?

  12. Likes Hodge liked this post
  13. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,323
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3836
    Likes (Received)
    2865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    WTF???

    We should get MOUTH BREATHING LESSONS from you, next?

    You DO have that shit written DOWN somewhere.. with an "exaggerated" sketch, "made some years ago"..yah?

    Or is some poor sod on a rota to remind you to get your head out of rectal defilade and INHALE once in a while?

    Now... given the above post as the rationale..?

    Annnnnnnd:

    Machinery Discussion Guidelines

    Just whose ass do we have to kiss to get YOU to kindly take your own advice?

    And motor off down the road?

    Or even just honor PM's site rules?

    Or is making long, foolish "look how DEFIANT I am!" posts just too damned addictive a habit to break ....without Hollywood re-hab and gender re-assignment surgery?

    And a HABIT it surely is !!!:

    OT: Why Was the Korean Fusion Thread Closed?

    OT: A Good Discussion of Vitamin D and COVED-19

    OT: Irritating Row of Buttons on Title Page Here

    Just WHICH PART of your OWN statement:

    "This forum is oriented to the professional machinists "

    Was it you so badly MISSED on Korean Fusion, Vitamins, or hobbyists who wish cheap shit could be BULLSHAT into becoming gold if only by the addition of extra helpings of exponential ignorance?

    If not also nuclear fusion. Or maybe only Vitamin pills?

    An "irritating row of buttons" we can just Freaking DEAL WITH!

    WTF???

    He is not the one as needs "discouraged!"

    Because HE may still be able to LEARN! Has even started on that.

    YOU ARE!!!

    Because YOU .. WILL NOT !!! And may.. never.

    Refusniks! God must have loved them, or she would not have set Al Gore to inventing the internet!
    All though I lost interest around chapter 3 or so.... At least it was coherent. I didnt need an interpreter....

  14. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    116
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    96
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    I used to use a dowel pin on the moveable jaw to get the back side and top perfectly perpendicular with a skim cut...flip 180 with the same side against the back and skim cut the other side to get it perfectly parallel (Within reason) then it should hold better without the pin...but a cheap vise is always a PITA

  15. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    19,423
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    11784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by D.Minnich View Post
    I used to use a dowel pin on the moveable jaw to get the back side and top perfectly perpendicular with a skim cut...flip 180 with the same side against the back and skim cut the other side to get it perfectly parallel (Within reason) then it should hold better without the pin...but a cheap vise is always a PITA
    Simple-dumb exception of pre "hold down" survives.. Shaper vise an example.

    KNOWING the movable jaw would TRY to tilt?

    They simply made it really massive as to sliding contact.. and really looong.

    So it could not tilt ... as MUCH!

    Have a really shiddy vise?

    Remove and "aside" it. That simple.

    Task-specific workholding can be created to suit any need .. and do a better job.

    Because one selects exactly what fits each specific need.. and no longer has to "fight" ... some far-away designer's general-purpose f**k-up... or "attempted blessing".

    Horizontal mill-hand doesn't even associate no damned "vise" with his mill.

    We have CLAMPS! And make as many more "clamps" and cousins as we see FIT to make. Right ON the mill, mostly. In the fullness of time? We accumulate a short TON of workholding gadgetry. A "general purpose vise" might not even be among that lot at all.

    See monster many-unit CNC "tombstone" fixturing. It's an "industry"...long-since, already, "workholding" is.

    A general-purpose "vise" is the vertical mill-lady's "vice"!

    Sort of a "drug", is it?

    They were actually MEANT to be "jawed, tooled, and augmented" actually. A component OF a solution. Not sole provider "as issued".

    Get creative. Tool it or take it OFF .....as a brain-paralyzer.

    Learn more. Make more. Grow faster and better.

    Grin more often!


  16. #33
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Cambridge, MA
    Posts
    1,786
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    78
    Likes (Received)
    1037

    Default

    If you put a workpiece high in a vise, then it will put a cantilever action on the vise jaws and stress them. This will cause the jaws to cock.

    The typical reaction to the problem is to use bigger, stronger, tighter vises. No matter how big, strong, tight and perfect your vise is, if you put unequal forces on it, it will cock. The only question is by how much.

    You can mostly avoid stress on a vise by placing the workpiece so that is below the screw. In other words, put the workpiece low in the vise. If this is not possible or desirable, then the same effect can be achieved by milling a separate block out of a material more malleable than that of the workpiece and placing this block below the workpiece as a cushion. For example, if you are milling steel, then you can use a cushion of soft brass or aluminum. If you are milling aluminum, then make the cushion out of delrin. The width of the cushion should be the width of the workpiece minus the width of the parallels + 0.001" or less. If it is difficult to get an exact grind on the cushion, then you can cheat it by adding soft jaws around the workpiece to take up slack.

    The bottom line is that ideally you want the forces at any given point on the vise jaws to be as equal as possible.

  17. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    Posts
    16
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    Get a set of these: 54A Hold-Down

  18. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    ch
    Posts
    3,182
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    264
    Likes (Received)
    439

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jscpm View Post
    If you put a workpiece high in a vise, then it will put a cantilever action on the vise jaws and stress them. This will cause the jaws to cock.

    The typical reaction to the problem is to use bigger, stronger, tighter vises. No matter how big, strong, tight and perfect your vise is, if you put unequal forces on it, it will cock. The only question is by how much.

    You can mostly avoid stress on a vise by placing the workpiece so that is below the screw. In other words, put the workpiece low in the vise. If this is not possible or desirable, then the same effect can be achieved by milling a separate block out of a material more malleable than that of the workpiece and placing this block below the workpiece as a cushion. For example, if you are milling steel, then you can use a cushion of soft brass or aluminum. If you are milling aluminum, then make the cushion out of delrin. The width of the cushion should be the width of the workpiece minus the width of the parallels + 0.001" or less. If it is difficult to get an exact grind on the cushion, then you can cheat it by adding soft jaws around the workpiece to take up slack.

    The bottom line is that ideally you want the forces at any given point on the vise jaws to be as equal as possible.
    whats the cushion for exactly?

  19. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    19,423
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    11784

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by p-moon View Post
    Get a set of these: 54A Hold-Down
    Lufkin's equivalent - found on eBay. Cheaper than I could be bothered to DIY.

    Mill is to be of any use?

    Workholding goods will in the fullness of time take up roughly the same cube as the knee does.

    BFD.

    The better the selection, the more and happier hours in yer life.

    Less expensive than whiskey, wheels, watercraft, wings, or wimmin' too.

    DAMHIKT!


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •