Tired of a dirty shop, best hints?
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 42
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Guinea-Bissau, West Africa
    Posts
    746
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    133

    Default Tired of a dirty shop, best hints?

    Hey all,
    I'm a naturally cluttery person who enjoys starting projects more than finishing them. I've grown to appreciate a bit of minimalism at home, and while a "bush" machinist like me can't avoid stocking every possible reamer, tap, and die I might need, that doesn't mean things need to be messy (I hope).

    So, I'm interested in suggestions. My shop is has open windows for ventilation which unfortunately also let dust blow in. That can't be avoided, at least in my current setting, but I would like less things sitting out so that it's easier to clean the dust when it does come in. So, ideas are welcome! (For context, we have a dusty, hot, dry season and then a humid (everywhere and inside everything) rainy season. Rust is a real problem, but especially in the rainy season.

    1) Tooling. I've gotten this pretty much under control with a combination of file cabinets, Akro bins, Lista cabinets, and a homemade (closing, because of the humidity) tooling cart for my NMTB40 mill toolholders. I think I've got this and fasteners organized about as well as they can be in my current, cramped space.

    2) Lathe accessories. I have a homemade box to hold my whole set of MT drills, on a jobbox behind my back as I work at the lathe, then most of my toolholders are either on the lathe apron or in one of the lathe's built in drawers. Chucks, dogs, reamers, mandrels, etc, are in the lockers behind (in the middle of the room).

    3) Mill accessories. Most (extra hold down tooling, indicators, 123 blocks, angle blocks) fit in the homemade tool cart I made, which has a standard craftsman toolbox sitting on it. However, constantly in the way and preventing good sweeping around the foot of the mill, I have a spare vise, rotab, 15" troyke, and dividing head sitting on the floor because I can't figure out how to store them well. I've seen some people have a little pedistal of heavy pipe standing vertically with little tables for each of these things that rotate around and allow an engine hoist to pick or return a given item. I like this idea but haven't gotten around to making one that would hold the 500# of fixtures I have.

    4) Stock. Fortunately we have a shipping container dedicated to holding structurals and sheet goods, and then I have a cart that holds most of the little short bits that I find at the scrap yard which are my machining stock.

    5) Work in progress, or things waiting to be repaired. I think this is the biggest problem for me. I don't have enough space to put WIP in bins or hang all of it, so it ends up getting stuck wherever. My nice 5x10' welding table is always half covered in not-welding projects. In addition to machining, I also do a lot of fab and operate inside a vocational welding school, so there are constantly half finished student projects around in addition to mine.

    I'm nervous about doing so, because almost all of my posts get someone chiming in saying "clean up that machine", but I'm posting some candid, not cleaned up, "this is what my shop often looks like" pictures.

    Oh, and my shop also serves as the maintenance bay for the building and vehicles of the school, explaining a few of the other things laying around.

    Anything constructive is welcome, as long as you keep in mind where I am. I do have the possibility of another shipping container late this year coming over, which could bring some equipment I have waiting in MI, as well as more storage if that's what I need.

    Some of the stuff is obvious "just throw it away" kind of stuff. Others are "just make time to finish it and get it off of the table". I fear, however, that the main one is "you don't have enough space for the equipment you have". I could dedicate half of my shop just to having adequate open space to operate the tube bender, angle iron bender, and punches.

    pano_20190311_162834.vr-large-.jpg

    I can't get 2 of the 3 photos to attach, and the forum smashes photos down pathetically small anyway, so here's a link to the album:
    Shared album - Jason Atkins - Google Photos

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Michigan
    Posts
    534
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    99
    Likes (Received)
    310

    Default

    It looks like you could use more storage space. You seem to have a fair bit of room up above. How about some shelving up high? I'm not talking full blown pallet rack, but an economical alternative, probably on posts.

  3. Likes neilho, mhajicek liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Saskatchewan
    Posts
    10,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1396
    Likes (Received)
    3691

    Default

    I know nothing about using a building in Africa. I suppose it gets hot?

    Has anyone tried building a roof over their roof? Let the ventilation air blow between the two roofs, that way, you could set the lower roof right down on top of the walls and cut down on the sifting dust. If necessary, you could install a few sheet metal chimneys right out the top to ventilate with natural draft between the roofs if there is no wind. It would not be necessary to have both roofs pitched for runoff, just the top one.

    Do open windows really help, or does it just provide moving air? Can you close off the windows and use fans to provide the moving air inside?

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Guinea-Bissau, West Africa
    Posts
    746
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glug View Post
    It looks like you could use more storage space. You seem to have a fair bit of room up above. How about some shelving up high? I'm not talking full blown pallet rack, but an economical alternative, probably on posts.
    That seems like a reasonable idea. That maroon shelf in the right side of the first pic is tremendously helpful. The air compressor is under it, but I do store a lot of stuff on it, and having a few more like it would be helpful. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled at the scrap yard for some heavier tube I can use as columns. I suppose we could do permanent ones with concrete pillars more cheaply, but the possibility of moving in the next couple of years does exist, so I'd rather have them portable.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Guinea-Bissau, West Africa
    Posts
    746
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung View Post
    I know nothing about using a building in Africa. I suppose it gets hot?

    Has anyone tried building a roof over their roof? Let the ventilation air blow between the two roofs, that way, you could set the lower roof right down on top of the walls and cut down on the sifting dust. If necessary, you could install a few sheet metal chimneys right out the top to ventilate with natural draft between the roofs if there is no wind. It would not be necessary to have both roofs pitched for runoff, just the top one.

    Do open windows really help, or does it just provide moving air? Can you close off the windows and use fans to provide the moving air inside?
    Yeah, it's pretty hot here. We have a few awesome months where the highs are mid 80's and the nights get down to mid 60's, which is great sleeping weather. Now though, we're heating up, and highs are around 100. March is still decent to sleep, but by May the coolest it'll get overnight is mid 80's, and that's pretty hard to sleep in. You take a lot of showers to cool off.

    A roof over a roof sounds a lot like a ceiling, haha... Yes, houses here that have a ceiling are much much cooler to be inside than ones with just a steel roof. The windows help cycle the air in from the outside, it's not just moving the air, but exchanging it, because otherwise, you're essentially inside a solar oven, with the heat radiated from the steel roof beating down into the shop with no where to go.

    Ceilings do help a lot, but I also do a lot of fab in this space, and the bottoms of the trusses are 10.5', so a ceiling under the truss would make swinging 20' structurals around quite a challenge. In this space, I don't think a ceiling is practical, which, given that everything is run from an off-grid solar system that doesn't have spare energy to run A/C, means leaving the windows open or melting into a puddle on the shop floor.

    I think I've largely made my peace with the dust (at least while I'm in this location), but would like to figure out how to get everything else stored and organized to make removing the dust that does fall easier.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    4,769
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5149
    Likes (Received)
    2463

    Default

    It's not a ceiling. Just another layer of panels with space for air to flow. Like this- Safe T Home

  8. Likes HuFlungDung liked this post
  9. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Louisville, KY, USA
    Posts
    984
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    214
    Likes (Received)
    219

    Default

    My shop was very full and disorganized. A friend of my son's has been coming in one day a week to learn and its been a huge help having another pair of eyes to help organize. It's also good to be accountable to someone else, if he helps me build some shelves, I'm going to have them filled when he comes back next week and if we put stuff on shelves, I'm going to put it back after I use it. Yes, some stuff stuff has been thrown away, but most of it has been reorganized to create a lot of space.

    A perfect example is the fixtures on the floor around your mill. You know what needs to be done, you know you'll have more space. Build some shelves, any shelves, and get that stuff off the floor. Assign a space for student projects other than your layout table, even if it's just a box drawn on the floor. You don't have to make it perfect, just better.

    Do the easy stuff first and try to start a habit of being organized. We're creatures of habit.

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    central NC
    Posts
    2,598
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    31
    Likes (Received)
    677

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonPAtkins View Post
    Yeah, it's pretty hot here. .........
    Any chance of being able to get something like this to paint the roof?

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Henry-4-...F871/100051140

    Just for grins one August I painted a small section of the dark grey shingles on my house with some white paint. The shingles measured about 165 degrees, the painted area about 130.

    Steve

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Country
    ZIMBABWE
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    26

    Default

    Morning Jason

    Is ur corrugated roof got a chromodek coating on it? If not, possibly for your new place if you move is get them to use chromodek sheets. Comes in Both Corrugated and IBR sheets cut to your specified length.
    Failing that there is a very good roof paint from SA, plascon and dulux make it that you can spray or brush on the top side of the sheets. Keeps the heat down a bit inside.

    There is also another product called Ali bubble that we use in warehouse, pack sheds etc that gets screwed right into the iron sheets above the purlines. Drops the heat big time.

    In conjunction with the Ali bubble some companies use a high pressure low volume misting systems attached just below the Ali bubble but generally not required, but as ur roof height is on the low side may work.

    物理農機 - 物理農機

    I have one of these systems in my tobacco sheds to keep the heat down and humidity at about 70% under the corrugated iron and no ali bubble but have a couple fans moving the air around. Nozzle package I have is the 0.2 and u set the timer on and off times. Need the air moving to keep the mist from settling.

    Hope this helps on cooling the workshop down.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    I work as a production line maintenance engineer and a large amount of my job is fabricating parts, I'm the only full time member of staff, I work in a small-ish machine shop with a lot of equipment and it usually ends up looking like your photo's, I think the problem is being that busy I don't have time to think about tidying up, never mind improving storage

    I don't think you have too much equipment for the space, that looks like a big workshop, moving stuff around has helped me a bit, I now have the space divided in two with an area for machinery and one for benches, hand fitting and storage. As a general rule the only thing I store in the machining area is cutters and tooling, everything else stays away from machines. It might not help with the look of the place but at least it helps with safety and keeps the machines clutter free

  13. Likes M.B. Naegle, NewbieMachinist liked this post
  14. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Viborg, Denmark, Europe
    Posts
    864
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    858
    Likes (Received)
    509

    Default

    Just saw Brians shelves in his newest video. Super simple.
    shelves.jpg

  15. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slnielsen View Post
    Just saw Brians shelves in his newest video. Super simple.
    shelves.jpg
    I like that, he's even used the space inside the blocks

  16. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    14,053
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4552
    Likes (Received)
    6708

    Default

    Whilst AC is too power hungry, would some simple insulation then just a simple filtered fan blowing air in at a low level and a exhaust fan up high not cut the mustered? Couple of hundred watts of fan and a simple furnace filter would eliminate your dust issues, Sealing and insulating would go a long way to limit the heat gain, dust entry and also bring the option of humidity control within feasibility in the damp season?

  17. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    65
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonPAtkins View Post
    Hey all,
    I'm a naturally cluttery person who enjoys starting projects more than finishing them. I've grown to appreciate a bit of minimalism at home, and while a "bush" machinist like me can't avoid stocking every possible reamer, tap, and die I might need, that doesn't mean things need to be messy (I hope).

    So, I'm interested in suggestions. My shop is has open windows for ventilation which unfortunately also let dust blow in. That can't be avoided, at least in my current setting, but I would like less things sitting out so that it's easier to clean the dust when it does come in. So, ideas are welcome! (For context, we have a dusty, hot, dry season and then a humid (everywhere and inside everything) rainy season. Rust is a real problem, but especially in the rainy season.

    1) Tooling. I've gotten this pretty much under control with a combination of file cabinets, Akro bins, Lista cabinets, and a homemade (closing, because of the humidity) tooling cart for my NMTB40 mill toolholders. I think I've got this and fasteners organized about as well as they can be in my current, cramped space.

    2) Lathe accessories. I have a homemade box to hold my whole set of MT drills, on a jobbox behind my back as I work at the lathe, then most of my toolholders are either on the lathe apron or in one of the lathe's built in drawers. Chucks, dogs, reamers, mandrels, etc, are in the lockers behind (in the middle of the room).

    3) Mill accessories. Most (extra hold down tooling, indicators, 123 blocks, angle blocks) fit in the homemade tool cart I made, which has a standard craftsman toolbox sitting on it. However, constantly in the way and preventing good sweeping around the foot of the mill, I have a spare vise, rotab, 15" troyke, and dividing head sitting on the floor because I can't figure out how to store them well. I've seen some people have a little pedistal of heavy pipe standing vertically with little tables for each of these things that rotate around and allow an engine hoist to pick or return a given item. I like this idea but haven't gotten around to making one that would hold the 500# of fixtures I have.

    4) Stock. Fortunately we have a shipping container dedicated to holding structurals and sheet goods, and then I have a cart that holds most of the little short bits that I find at the scrap yard which are my machining stock.

    5) Work in progress, or things waiting to be repaired. I think this is the biggest problem for me. I don't have enough space to put WIP in bins or hang all of it, so it ends up getting stuck wherever. My nice 5x10' welding table is always half covered in not-welding projects. In addition to machining, I also do a lot of fab and operate inside a vocational welding school, so there are constantly half finished student projects around in addition to mine.

    I'm nervous about doing so, because almost all of my posts get someone chiming in saying "clean up that machine", but I'm posting some candid, not cleaned up, "this is what my shop often looks like" pictures.

    Oh, and my shop also serves as the maintenance bay for the building and vehicles of the school, explaining a few of the other things laying around.

    Anything constructive is welcome, as long as you keep in mind where I am. I do have the possibility of another shipping container late this year coming over, which could bring some equipment I have waiting in MI, as well as more storage if that's what I need.

    Some of the stuff is obvious "just throw it away" kind of stuff. Others are "just make time to finish it and get it off of the table". I fear, however, that the main one is "you don't have enough space for the equipment you have". I could dedicate half of my shop just to having adequate open space to operate the tube bender, angle iron bender, and punches.

    pano_20190311_162834.vr-large-.jpg

    I can't get 2 of the 3 photos to attach, and the forum smashes photos down pathetically small anyway, so here's a link to the album:
    Shared album - Jason Atkins - Google Photos
    I think you have hit on one of the biggest shop problems..
    One of the quickest and easiest ways to keep a shop clean and organized is Everytime you move from one place to another just pick up what needs to be in the area you are heading to and on your way back bring what needs to be there.
    In most instances people make lots of trips across the shop with nothing in their hands.
    I use pallet racks over most all of my machines that are against the outside walls. Not the handiest to get things on and off of but in a shop we always have lots of tooling, supplies, material, etc that we don't use all the time.

  18. Likes M.B. Naegle liked this post
  19. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    2,434
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1925
    Likes (Received)
    1075

    Default

    We've gone through this process over the last several years, and that IMO is a key point a lot of people miss.

    Becoming organized isn't an event, but a constant process. You have to change how you think and how you work to include tidiness and organization into the daily/hourly course of events. A lot of people get hung up on the idea that they are too busy or otherwise can't afford the time, but often they are seeing being organized as a separate thing, as in, they have to stop being productive to do it. When you change your way of thinking from that, to dovetailing organization into your habits and practices, it becomes a lot simpler. In other words, using a drill chuck is always going to involve taking it out of the machine, when you do, keeping it in your hand and walking it back to where it's kept will take less time that putting it on the bench to put away when it's convenient.

    There's lots of cool idea's out there but a couple that have helped me include: working off of moving carts or benches that let you take the "whole job" from task to task, rather than leaving a trail of tools and supplies as you go.

    Also helps to get out of the habit of keeping stuff in front of you because you might use it again soon. IMO good organization means you can put something away and still get it at a moments notice. That said, I don't like having things out in the open (peg boards, open shelves, etc.). When possible, I go for closed cabinets and drawers as they keep the contents cleaner and promote a tidier environment. The trade-off is that things are out of sight so you have to remember where everything is. I like keeping tools together in a "tool crib" or similar area as it free's up a lot of room around your machines and promotes better planing. We still keep some specific tools with our machines (wrenches, specific tooling, some collet sets, etc.) but often that stuff has to fit in the little cabinets on the machines themselves, so EVERYTHING else (expendables, shared tools, fixturing, etc.) is in the crib. I try to think this way in my home shop too even though the tool cabinet is 2 feet away from my machines.

    You're climate/environment will play into things too. In South Texas, we constantly fight humidity and bugs, in the American Southwest, it's the heat and sometimes dust. These are all things to consider, as not all storage solutions and practices will work for everyone.

  20. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Saskatchewan
    Posts
    10,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1396
    Likes (Received)
    3691

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by M.B. Naegle View Post
    We've gone through this process over the last several years, and that IMO is a key point a lot of people miss.

    Becoming organized isn't an event, but a constant process. You have to change how you think and how you work to include tidiness and organization into the daily/hourly course of events. A lot of people get hung up on the idea that they are too busy or otherwise can't afford the time, but often they are seeing being organized as a separate thing, as in, they have to stop being productive to do it. When you change your way of thinking from that, to dovetailing organization into your habits and practices, it becomes a lot simpler. In other words, using a drill chuck is always going to involve taking it out of the machine, when you do, keeping it in your hand and walking it back to where it's kept will take less time that putting it on the bench to put away when it's convenient.

    There's lots of cool idea's out there but a couple that have helped me include: working off of moving carts or benches that let you take the "whole job" from task to task, rather than leaving a trail of tools and supplies as you go.

    Also helps to get out of the habit of keeping stuff in front of you because you might use it again soon. IMO good organization means you can put something away and still get it at a moments notice. That said, I don't like having things out in the open (peg boards, open shelves, etc.). When possible, I go for closed cabinets and drawers as they keep the contents cleaner and promote a tidier environment. The trade-off is that things are out of sight so you have to remember where everything is. I like keeping tools together in a "tool crib" or similar area as it free's up a lot of room around your machines and promotes better planing. We still keep some specific tools with our machines (wrenches, specific tooling, some collet sets, etc.) but often that stuff has to fit in the little cabinets on the machines themselves, so EVERYTHING else (expendables, shared tools, fixturing, etc.) is in the crib. I try to think this way in my home shop too even though the tool cabinet is 2 feet away from my machines.

    You're climate/environment will play into things too. In South Texas, we constantly fight humidity and bugs, in the American Southwest, it's the heat and sometimes dust. These are all things to consider, as not all storage solutions and practices will work for everyone.
    I think some guys think that customers shouldn't have to pay you to keep your shop organized. The key word is "keep" and 'yes, they should' because it is their job that creates the mess. But to be honest about it, you have to start with it organized to be fair about charging to get stuff out and put it back.

    I limit the mess to one tool chest top (about 18" x 24") per machine, per job. Anything that won't stay on there goes back into a tool chest or onto a shelf. Building adequate shelving or acquiring adequate numbers of tool chests is a no brainer. Of course you do all that.

    There is often a lot of available space in a bar stock storage rack of the horizontal type. All the space between the support arms is available for storage shelves. You just need enough clearance to fit your forklift forks in. I have 100 lineal feet of shelving, 2 feet deep and 4 to 6" high in my bar stock rack.

  21. Likes M.B. Naegle liked this post
  22. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Denver, CO USA
    Posts
    10,215
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    5698

    Default

    The double roof is a common sight in outback Australia.
    It floats above the structure.

  23. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oregon
    Posts
    2,578
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    593
    Likes (Received)
    784

    Default

    N.B.Neagle's post points out the discipline needed to keep a squared away shop. One of the problems I have is that my employee, for a nice change, is a non drinking non drugging honest nice guy who comes to work on time every day, I've noticed that he's not good at putting things away when he's done and when I put them away for him I become his servant instead of the other way around. I work very hard at adapting friendly tone asking if the tool by the vise is from his use or mine (Knowing full well it wasn't me) to which he lightly replies "Yeah, I forgot to put it away".
    He's turned ME into a tool replacer but it was my bad habits that turned him into a lazy non-replacer.
    I think the secret is self assignment of blame by everyone.

  24. Likes M.B. Naegle liked this post
  25. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Saskatchewan
    Posts
    10,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1396
    Likes (Received)
    3691

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by partsproduction View Post
    N.B.Neagle's post points out the discipline needed to keep a squared away shop. One of the problems I have is that my employee, for a nice change, is a non drinking non drugging honest nice guy who comes to work on time every day, I've noticed that he's not good at putting things away when he's done and when I put them away for him I become his servant instead of the other way around. I work very hard at adapting friendly tone asking if the tool by the vise is from his use or mine (Knowing full well it wasn't me) to which he lightly replies "Yeah, I forgot to put it away".
    He's turned ME into a tool replacer but it was my bad habits that turned him into a lazy non-replacer.
    I think the secret is self assignment of blame by everyone.
    Have you tried "I FEEL when you don't put your tools away that you don't appreciate working here?"

    Seriously, no two people are the same. I never used to bug my guys about their personal mess during the course of a day's work, unless they misplaced common stuff that everyone had to get their hands on throughout the day. At the end of the day, it had to be reorganized. I, too, am the organizer, and felt it was up to me to make organization happen in useful, ergonomic ways.

    I have tool boards on each lathe to hang up the tools belonging there. One tool chest beside each machine, with common tools in (and on) it. I even have a two shelf hutch sitting on each tool chest with about 10" clearance and 8" depth to set actively used micrometers, and inserts, pen, paper and calculator. With enough places designed to hold stuff, there is practically no need to set anything down where it doesn't naturally reside.

  26. Likes digger doug liked this post
  27. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    11

    Default

    In the last place I worked we had shadow boards for machine tools, everyone always put stuff back because it was obvious if something was missing


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •