TOS FNK 25 Part II

Guys, please I need help deciding whether to pass on this vertical mill rig or not. Paul from Omnitrade who spent 35 years in the TOS plant says those

manual machines new go for $40,000.00 and asking price of six thousand for a used one from late 80's is still a bargain. I'm hearing $2000 - $2500 from the

American side. So six grand Canadian or five grand US is double what you guys would pay? This would be my first vertical mill but the more I read your comments,

this one isn't the so-called Deckle clone so highly sought after? I'm wondering if I should just pass, simply can't decide. Comes with no collets, no tooling and was

bought from an auction. There is a newer one for sale I can get for around $3900.00 and is said to be is very good running order but is three provinces away. I feel

pressured in that he said I might be an old man before I find another "stout" Vertical mill of this caliber. Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated!

I have until tomorrow to decide. Table is 13 inch x 65 inch 3750 lbs overall 40 taper, no oil leaks, spent 2.5 hours talking to him about the machine in person.

No way he will ever get $C6000 for that mill. Those big mills are less liquid than the smaller ones, too old for a "real" shop too big for home shop guys. We bought a big mill from the mint in Winnipeg for $C1700 with some tooling and that is sort of what they go for.
Bob

Jaden said:

this one isn't the so-called Deckle clone so highly sought after?

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Deckel clone ??? Other than the fact that it "mills stuff", that isn't even remotely like a Deckel in any way. Paul from Omnitrade has a distorted view of the market. They may indeed cost $40,000 new but I suspect no one in North America is actually buying any TOS manual mills these days. If it runs quiet and you love it so much, pay up and take 'er home... but I guarantee you will loose a few thousand on it when you eventually sell it.

Hmm thanks Bob, yeah you guys are great, you're right though especially it being three phase, should be alot cheaper and the table is oversized doesn't fit well inside the shop.

40 taper is a plus

I had one of those, sold it for 5K canadian ab out 10 years ago.

Thanks Milacron, yeah that was my first fear...having a boat anchor when the time to sell came, I don't have three phase so have to get a vfd and being so big only market would be another hobbyist I'm guessing who will not pay anywhere near that. I would LOVE to buy a Deckel, cincinnati,van norman K&T but these cadillacs never make it up here it seems.

quasi said:

I had one of those, sold it for 5K canadian ab out 10 years ago.

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Thanks for that quasi...I suspect 5 k would have been more market value since cncs were not as prominant then. So nowadays all of them being 10 years older, faster cncs the TOS should be headed lower. I listen to you guys and when you say buy the biggest you can afford I'm thinking this may be the exception. Won't hold it's value even tho czech machine is decent and resale won't appeal to but the very few.

From the pictures it looks a bit ok.

Did you test run it? Does it sound ok? Seems like a nice gear head with quill, very useful. I`d say for old machine condition is much more important than if it says Made in Poland, Deckel or Bridgeport.
Looks overall like a very handy allround milling machine.

Price is maybe a bit high if i`s not in good condition.
I don`t see any DRO, you should find money for that in your budget.
I don`t see any provision for proper horisontal milling? Can be nifty but do you Need it?
Don`t let the seller push you. If you have something to do in it that is of value then a thousand up or down is not that important. Otherwise you can continue enjoying the agony of searching for the holy grail of mills...
I think more important is look at your whole budget and split it into maybe three parts (or something)
Machine - (Size, ) condition and accessories? The accessories that don`t come with the machine your not likely to get - like slotting, high speed, what ever heads.
DRO - yes or no, does it have the features you want? very old ones don`t come with any nifty lcd screen - Do you you a nifty lcd screen and hole cirle command? Hmmmm... depends.
Tooling - Tooling for a milling machine is an endless ocean to drown in unless you have a clear view of what you NEED to do. What you might Want to do can set you back the cost for a decent home also on an old cheap machine...

I can`t really say anything about pricing but 2000 seems cheap, at least here that`s what we pay for a decent drillpress. Otoh sellers asking price seem a bit on the high side for a naked machine. Maybe he can toss in some tooling for you? Otoh again, if it is a machine as you need, you`re not likely to ever sell. so that loss is imaginary. What you could do at lower price is have some more dollars over for tooling..

TOS FNK 25 & the FNK25 A are probably my favourite turret mills - I was ''given a new one'' to run around 73 - 74.

Although IMHO it is a very good machine and will eat a BP without a trace of indigestion, but there are some things to watch out for when buying used. ;-

The rack that controls the turret yaw can strip if not used properly, the rack is machined in to the end of the ram and AFAIK not replaceable.

Make sure the feeds and rapids work properly, including the limit stops and override clutches, but especially that the rapid stops when you take your hand off the lever - they can stick

The power feed gearboxes have been known to fill with coolant and muck - it doesn't do them a lot of good.

The hand wheels are spring loaded so they have to be lightly pushed to engage a dog clutch - this is so they free instantly for the rapids, MAKE SURE they slide easily, flailing hand wheels in rapid HURT

All I've used had a two speed motor, but changing the belt speed is a bit of a pain, and unless you're a good 6ft plus, you'll need a hop up.

There are probably other problems but those are what came to mind.

Price? I will leave to others but that one looks like it's had a hard life.

P.S. FYI The FNK 25 only has power & rapids on the X axis, whereas the FNK 25 A has it on all three axies on the knee.

does it leak oil?

Hello got tos fnk 25a. Looking for manual for this mill any help would greatly appercaited.
Thank you

If it works and has the features you want/need the dro is around $1,000 if you had to add one to an existing mill. You will need a good vise add around $750. Many mills are sold with a DRO and vise included, but it may be worn out and you have to buy a new one anyway.
Being in Alberta I assume machine tools are few and more costly. So how much are you willing to spend in time and money to go somewhere far away to buy a machine and haul it home?
I will let you figure out the tooling costs but non R8 stuff may be cheaper used, but it may be harder to find used.
Bill D.

Depends how desperate you are. Have you got work waiting for this m/c if you havnt I would pass on it not because its a bad make but purely because its over priced and has been said theres no tempting tooling thrown in to sway you.At end of day its a robust vertical thats all,And it looks like its been a workhorse for someone.Half the price with no tooling might have given the thumbs up.The seller sounds like a car salesman when he says you might wait a lifetime untill another one comes along-Who says you have to wait for a Tos theres plenty of others that would be higher up the league but it sounds like you may have to travel and that means factoring in costs