TYPICAL machining sequence

SamTyler · Feb 22, 2019

We have a basement without walls. She wants to finish part of it, and I want to put a shop down there. It MIGHT be possible to do both with some planning. And before anyone asks how Leroy Gibbs plans to move his boat (running gag on NCIS), YES this is garden level with an OH door.

I'm more familiar with woodworking and have done some welding, but a machinist I am not, least not yet. Can anyone advise me on the TYPICAL sequencing of operations in metal machining? I'm sure there will be exceptions, I just don't want to be criss-crossing the floor between machines.

My guess, based on woodworking, would be sheet shears, bandsaw, chopsaw, and plasma cutter to break down stock, mill for surfacing and linear shaping and boring and broaching and tapping threads (with machine off and turning the chuck by hand and letting the threads pull the quill as they are made), lathe for turning and cutting threads, bench/angle/die grinders, files, sheet bender, tube/rod bender, sheet shrinker/stretcher/hammers/dollys/english wheel, hardening/tempering, then finally to the arbor press, welder, paint booth, and nuts/bolts/screws.

Is that about right or am I way off? Am I missing anything major?

EPAIII · Feb 22, 2019

Wow, so you want to layout the shop so that work progresses from one end, where I assume you store the raw stock, to the other where there is a big enough door to get it out into that garden. And you want to know the "normal" sequence.

I don't really know if there is a "normal" or more used sequence. Yes, the saw is often where I start a part by cutting off enough stock for it and to hold it during the subsequent operations. And painting or some other kind of finishing is often the last step. But, beyond that I really can't think of any real sequence. Some parts are completely machined on the lathe. Others are completely machined in the mill. Some require going back and forth, possibly more than once: lathe - mill - lathe again - mill again or whatever. And often the bulk of the time required to make a part is not in moving it around the room or in the actual machining operations. But in the set-ups required for each step.

When I planned my shop I laid out the machines so that I could use them to maximum effect. That is, I looked for placements where long or large pieces could overhang in one direction or another while I was working on them. And I often find myself going around from one machine to another, but not often in any fixed sequence.

One exception to this is I have two drill presses: one bench top and the other floor stand. I deliberately placed them side by side so that a part that required two drill press operations could be done on them in sequence. This, for instance, is handy for drilling and then chamfering a hole.

SamTyler · Feb 22, 2019

EPAIII said:
Wow, so you want to layout the shop so that work progresses from one end, where I assume you store the raw stock, to the other where there is a big enough door to get it out into that garden. And you want to know the "normal" sequence.

Take the line between those 2 ends and bend them around a workbench, then apply some logic as you set up the shop for "typical" (I didn't say "normal") sequence so you're not tripping over a string of sheet metal tools as you travel between mill and lathe, unless of course you routinely spin sheet then maybe you want your sheet cutting/forming tools close at hand.

EPAIII said:
Some parts are completely machined on the lathe. Others are completely machined in the mill. Some require going back and forth, possibly more than once: lathe - mill - lathe again - mill again or whatever. And often the bulk of the time required to make a part is not in moving it around the room or in the actual machining operations. But in the set-ups required for each step.

So what you're saying is not everyone in the shop has to deal with every piece of work that comes through, and some pieces of work have to be operated on more than once by the same tool?

I'll rephrase my question. Is there a more efficient way to set up a shop than I previously described? It just seems that some operations tend to be related when they are needed, while other operations are seldom if ever seen together.

Delw · Feb 23, 2019

SamTyler said:
We have a basement without walls. She wants to finish part of it, and I want to put a shop down there. It MIGHT be possible to do both with some planning. ?

the only reason and possible way for her to be down there is to put a kitchen down there

SamTyler · Feb 23, 2019

Delw said:
the only reason and possible way for her to be down there is to put a kitchen down there

Is your reply intended to get you posting points or are you just sexist?

Delw · Feb 23, 2019

SamTyler said:
Is your reply intended to get you posting points or are you just sexist?

if I was being sexist I would have said " smack her on the ass and tell her to get back in the kitchen were she belongs"

We get points for post? is it kinda like the ticket counter at chucky cheese were you get certain prized for certain amount of points?

Man some of you snow flakes just cant handle horsing around its unbelievable.

SamTyler · Feb 23, 2019

Delw said:
if I was being sexist I would have said " smack her on the ass and tell her to get back in the kitchen were she belongs"

We get points for post? is it kinda like the ticket counter at chucky cheese were you get certain prized for certain amount of points?

Man some of you snow flakes just cant handle horsing around its unbelievable.

The site seems to have a correlation between number of posts and the rating that appears under usernames (plastic, aluminum, etc). Ordinarily I'd be surprised a new guy noticed something the others didn't, but then I realize you're too busy compensating to notice.

PeteM · Feb 23, 2019

Given your shop is half the basement, the few seconds to walk between, say, a bandsaw and a lathe or mill isn't going to be where you lose time.

One principle is to store tooling right next to the machine that uses it. Another is to keep dirty/gritty operations (grinding, welding, that plasma cutter, and any sanding or cutting operation from a wood shop) far enough away from precision surfaces (lathe, mill) so you don't get crap on machine ways, measuring tools, or a surface plate. A third -- especially for a mixed use shop in a home -- is not to have sparks or flame near anything combustible -- and still have a few fire extinguishers around. A fourth is to organize your material; from fasteners to bar stock, so you can easily find what you have. Depending upon what you plan -- might well need an outside shed for much of that.

If you're lucky, you'll have a big mobile workbench you can roll into the "finished" space to do disassembly and assembly. Bench space is always at a premium.

SamTyler · Feb 23, 2019

PeteM said:
Given your shop is half the basement, the few seconds to walk between, say, a bandsaw and a lathe or mill isn't going to be where you lose time.

One principle is to store tooling right next to the machine that uses it. Another is to keep dirty/gritty operations (grinding, welding, that plasma cutter, and any sanding or cutting operation from a wood shop) far enough away from precision surfaces (lathe, mill) so you don't get crap on machine ways, measuring tools, or a surface plate. A third -- especially for a mixed use shop in a home -- is not to have sparks or flame near anything combustible -- and still have a few fire extinguishers around. A fourth is to organize your material; from fasteners to bar stock, so you can easily find what you have. Depending upon what you plan -- might well need an outside shed for much of that.

If you're lucky, you'll have a big mobile workbench you can roll into the "finished" space to do disassembly and assembly. Bench space is always at a premium.

SOLID! I hadn't thought abt proximity of abrasives to bedways. Thanks.
We'll have to disagree on that rolling workbench though. Rolling assembly table maybe, but the way I use a workbench I about need a Roubo bolted to the floor, otherwise I tend to tip them over when I separate the fan clutch from the water pump on the neighbor's Envoy. Just ask the manager at the local auto parts shop why I'm not allowed to use their vise any more ROFLMAO! Thankfully the hose crimper landed on a pallet of broken-down cardboard or I'd be typing this from a different place.

Delw · Feb 23, 2019

SamTyler said:
The site seems to have a correlation between number of posts and the rating that appears under usernames (plastic, aluminum, etc). Ordinarily I'd be surprised a new guy noticed something the others didn't, but then I realize you're too busy compensating to notice.

oh your talking about the identity thing, some foreigner came up with that idea on Vbulletin back in the early 90's I think it was the 3rd version of vbulletin that actually let you change a few things depending on post count and such to Identify people with. used to be named off basic user groups. but you know they had to keep up with facebook and all and the people on the other side of the Atlantic loved that feel good identity stuff. kinda how identity politics got started
But no I dont care about boosting post counts for a better Identity name, I just said it cause it seemed like the right thing to say at the time.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Feb 23, 2019

SamTyler said:
SOLID! I hadn't thought abt proximity of abrasives to bedways. Thanks.
We'll have to disagree on that rolling workbench though. Rolling assembly table maybe, but the way I use a workbench I about need a Roubo bolted to the floor, otherwise I tend to tip them over when I separate the fan clutch from the water pump on the neighbor's Envoy. Just ask the manager at the local auto parts shop why I'm not allowed to use their vise any more ROFLMAO! Thankfully the hose crimper landed on a pallet of broken-down cardboard or I'd be typing this from a different place.

One place I worked at didn't have much room so the little rubbish bin ended up under a wall mounted double ended pedestal grinder. You can see where this is going. No real damage done but the bin did catch fire one day.

Keep grinders well away from precision machinery if you can. The grit can cause all sorts of problems.

Regards Tyrone.

Tony Quiring · Feb 23, 2019

Make scale drawings of everything and cut them out.

Yourself included.

Place all on drawing of space and perform virtual work to see how you move.

Imagine making something and do it with your model.

Everything on wheels so it can be moved and consider the driveway as work space if it exists.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

bhigdog · Feb 23, 2019

Unless you are doing or making the same thing every day there is no correct or best set up other than the mentioned keep the clean and dirty operations separated and the common sense things like making room for stock over hang, electrical/utility hook up, don't block doors, etc etc..........Bob

jrmach · Feb 23, 2019

Working on my Diamond here

Bill Simmons · Feb 23, 2019

Being from the far left state, I am not that familiar with basements. But I am impressed that one would have a basement large enough to accommodate all the operations that you listed. Some of those operations require large footprints. I would think that a basement would have physical characteristics that would dominate the layout. Is the space a large rectangle? Are there posts supporting the structure above? Is this a low ceiling situation? Does plumbing intrude in the space? Are there multiple exits? Is there equipment in the space for water heating and heating the house? If any of the possible issues listed above exist, they will dictate the layout.

Welding and painting will require ventilation and painting can not be done if there is a gas water heater in the vicinity.
Fire prevention features are a must since a fire will not only take out your shop, but you also lose your house.

As stated by others, going from machine to machine is a small part of the time in machining a part. You will spend far longer clamping and squaring a part on the mill than you will spend getting to the mill from the band saw.

As recommended by others, put all on wheels. I doubt you will acquire all the equipment at one time and the layout will need to change as machinery is acquired.

isaac338 · Feb 23, 2019

In my experience, you can plan and make drawings and cutouts and CAD models till your eyes cross, and no matter how you end up, you'll come up with a way better layout after working in the space for a month. The endless shop shuffle is real.

It's just not possible to accurately represent how you're going to use the space until it's full of stuff and you're using it, at least in the context of a small home-sized shop where stuff tends to be packed in.

Do you have all the machines and equipment you listed? The other thing is people tend to reserve a spot for something they intend to buy later, and end up using it for something else, completely negating all the planning.

guest · Feb 23, 2019

isaac338 said:
In my experience, you can plan and make drawings and cutouts and CAD models till your eyes cross, and no matter how you end up, you'll come up with a way better layout after working in the space for a month. The endless shop shuffle is real.

+1 on that.

I put in another VMC. I knew where I wanted it, and moved 2 engine lathes and a smaller VMC to make the space.

I got everything all situated, and found out the work space was barely functional.

I had laid everything out with tape on the floor before I started, and walked around between the lines to see if I was leaving myself enough space. I had to rearrange the workbenches and tooling storage 2 times before I got something I could live with.

The tighter it is, the more inches count.

@OP- don't forget to take the power into consideration...

Guest · Feb 23, 2019

About the only constant in all shop layouts is going to be having the stock rack in a place where it is easy to bring the stock in from it's delivery point. You also want a clear easy path from the stock rack to the saw. Also if you are going to do any cutting of stock in production quantities you are going to want the saw in easy access from the most common place you will be working. I you have a horizontal saw with a gravity down feed you can do other things in between cuts.

As mentioned before scaled cut outs are great for laying out a shop, remember to leave plenty of work space around all the electrical control cabinets of the machinery.

Tyrone Shoelaces · Feb 23, 2019

If you do buy a milling machine avoid the temptation to put the column right into the corner of the room at 45 degrees. If you do you won't be able have anything of any length stuck out past the edge of the table.

Regards Tyrone.

Mike1974 · Feb 23, 2019

Unless your basement is 10k square feet, I am guessing you are out in left field with this "layout".

I'm not saying by any means to not have some kind of layout plans as in grinder/bench grinder away from your lathe etc, but other than that, see how the stuff fits and have at it.

I doubt you are going to see any improvements with throughput on anything until you get into some larger quantities. If you are assembling 100-500 widgets, yes, of course, make a plan to maximize your time, and/or minimize the walking to and fro and shuffling parts between stations. If you are working on your buddy's engine/tractor part/lawnmower... meh...

TYPICAL machining sequence

Plastic

Diamond

Plastic

Stainless

Plastic

Stainless

Plastic

Diamond

Plastic

Stainless

Diamond

Titanium

Stainless

Titanium

Cast Iron

Cast Iron

guest

Guest

Guest

Guest

Diamond

Diamond

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