Lathe setup

I hope this is the correct place to post this. First a little info. Although I have done some minor tinkering with a mill and lathe and have taken one semester of a college level machinist class, I am not a machinist. I work in a small shipyard. All our machine work is farmed out. My boss has purchased a used JIMT 360 lathe and a Milltronics mill that he wants to use to make parts such as bronze sleeves, turning Thordon rudder bearings, and other small parts. He knows I am not a machinist but for some unknown reason he thinks I'm the guy for this job.

Now for the help. I have tried the search on here and could not find the info I'm looking for. My boss told me yesterday to "get started doing what you need to do to get that lathe running". I need info on what I should do to "install" the lathe and mill such as leveling (where and how and with what) and anchoring it to the floor and any checks I should do to make sure they're as they should be. I think he plans on me, at least for the time being, running this equipment which I am looking forward to learning something I have wanted to do for many years. I am also trying to find any manuals for these two pieces of equipment. The boss is supposed to call the guy he bought them from to see if he has them but I'm not counting on that. Thanks for any help you can give and wish me luck.

Perhaps you should make it clear to your boss you know nothing about machining. That way your butt is covered in case something goes wrong.

I find it hard to believe you used the search function and couldn't find ANYTHING about setting up, leveling, grouting and maintaining machine tools. Put some more effort into the search and I'm sure youl find more then enough information.

Anyways heres an online text on basic machine work, its very useful:

http://www.metalwebnews.org/ftp/advanced-machine-work.pdf

the parent website METAL WEB NEWS is also helpful as well

I'm probably using the wrong search phrases and I have a tendency to get sidetracked reading posts but I have been and will continue using search. As far as covering my butt, it's covered. Like I said, he knows I'm not a machinist but I think he figures I have as much aptitude to pick it up as anyone he has right now. When he said something in our production meeting Friday about me making parts I asked him how much scrap he had.

I don't mean to sound like a downer, but this is how it is:

Properly installing and leveling a lathe (even a generic 14x40 like yours, which has only four leveling pads and is considered relatively simple to level) takes a thorough understanding of the fundamental geometric relationships in a machine tool, a properly designed and prepared surface on which to mount it, and expensive tools.

For the work you are doing, this level of detail might be unnecessary. While the thought of improperly installing may make some people (myself included) cringe, it may be all that is practical for you.

The reason that lathes are leveled is not because they perform better when level, but rather because the gravity vector is a consistent reference that is easily used to align the variety of planes and lines that make up a lathe's bed.

The tools needed to properly align a lathe a lathe and check level (precision level, indicators, test bar, new centers, etc...) will run you in the neighborhood of $1000. Here I'm assuming that because these are your first machines, you have no tooling.

I'd focus on getting the machine running, buying the essentials for operation (and not just the cheapest tools available), spending time reading on this forum, and making parts. After you've been learning both the practice from running the machines and the theory from this board for a few weeks, you will begin to understand the geometry of the lathe and, in turn, how to properly align it.

Good luck,
Henry

Set it there where the power can be hooked up and its sits without teetering like it will standing on just three of the four legs.

Purchase, study and use How To Run A Lathe available here:
Lindsay's Technical Books

Cutting tools are a whole set of learning themselves. You can either learn yourself to grind high speed steel bits, or you can play the expensive game of buying carbide inserts and their holders which at this point you have no idea at all about. Sometimes cutting tool saleamen can see what you intend to do and make general suggestions about what to buy.

When you are ready to cut some iron, look the man in the eye and clearly state that the machine is not level and cannot perform up to expectations until it is, and then also politely inform him that just the level to level it with can be anywhere between $150 and $500.

Or if you want to do enough searching and reading here, you can find that what is really important is not that the lathe is level but that it cuts straight, and this characteristic is easily demonstrated to yourself and him by carrying out the two disc or two diameter test. It has to pass this test with no help from the tailstock. If you cannot make the lathe turn two diameters 6" to 8" apart that are very very nearly the same with the same tool setting, not using the tail stock, then the lathe is not ready to use yet because it is not cutting straight yet.

Manuals are great, but they seldom ever tell you how to run the lathe. Much more will be found in the manual about taking care of and maintaining the lathe.

John Oder

How To Use a Lathe from American Machine Tools Corp.

http://www.wswells.com/data/htral/1930_htral.pdf

Try to google:

WhateveryouwanttofindatPM site:practicalmachinist.com

You can easily do it.

According to the instruction manual for my old 16 X 30 Pratt & Whitney Model C lathe the level on the length of the bed can be IGNORED. The front to back level is more important but it needn't be down to a gnat's ass for the type of work you're talking about. Buy a cheap set of 1-2-3 blocks and set them on the flat ways. Take the best level available and lay it on the blocks and note the bubble position. Swap ends on the level and again note the bubble position. If the level is working ok the bubble should come to rest in the same position relative to the center markings. If it doesn't find a level that does. There is no need to bolt the lathe or mill to the floor. Most lathes have four mounting holes in the head stock base and two in the tail stock leg. Measure the hole diameter and the flange thickness and go buy a half dozen bolts and a dozen nuts. The threaded portion of the bolts should equal the flange thickness plus the thickness of the two nuts plus an inch. Pick up some .250" by 4" hot rolled stock and cut 6 ea. 4" lengths. Put a dimple in the center of each piece for the bolt to nest in. Lift and block the headstock end. Thread one nut all the way on the bolt and and insert it through the flange. Thread the other nut on and put the put the end of the bolt in the dimple. Just do the two outside mounting holes on the head stock end. Remove the blocking and do the same on the tail stock end. Using a wrench on the bolt head and bottom nut raise the lathe so that you can see daylight between the four plates and the base flanges. Now level the lathe front to back at the head stock and the far end of the bed. Make sure you can still see daylight between the flanges and the plates. You can now add the nuts, bolts and plates to the inboard mounting holes of the head stock. These last two bolts need only be slightly more than finger tight.

I screwed around with rocker tool posts, brazed carbide, etc. If I knew then what I know now I'd buy a right handed trigon tool holder and inserts. With one setting trigon inserts allow you to both turn and face. While you're at it get a boring bar that uses trigon inserts too. Get an Aloris clone quick change tool post set in the BXA size. Make sure the set you choose has the cut off holder that utilizes the blade type that mounts carbide inserts.

The easiest way I've found to set cutting tool height is to take a facing cut on a piece of stock mounted in the chuck. When the height is correct there won't be a tit left in the center of the stock because the tool is too high or low. The boring bar holder can be set in the same way.

The easiest way I've found to center the tail stock front to back is to use a home made test bar. To make the test bar you'll need several items- a tail stock mounted drill chuck-a 60 degree center drill-a live center and a micrometer. Face both ends of a 15-18 inch piece of 1 or 1.25"cold rolled. Center drill both ends. Bore two pieces of brass or aluminum to a close sliding fit on the center drilled shaft. Super glue the collars so that one inch of the shaft shows at each end. If you don't have lathe dogs available an alternative method is to loosely grip an eighth inch of the shaft in the chuck and advance the tail stock barrel so that the live center supports the outboard end of the shaft. snug up the three jaw and the tail stock barrel. Lock the tail stock and barrel. Take a light cut with a fine feed across the two collars making sure not to change the depth of cut between the collars. Measure the collars. If the outboard collar is too big move the tail stock closer to you. if it's too small do the reverse.

Usually if the mill isn't rocking it's ok.

Thanks,
Larry

Start with these.
Manual of Lathe Operations and Machinists Tables, Atlas Press Co.
http://www.bbssystem.com/manuals/Lathe-Tutorial.pdf
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. Tubalcain videos, Watch them all
MIT TechTV – Machine Shop 1
Text-book of advanced machine work : Smith, Robert H. (Robert Henry), 1852-1916 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
Fundamentals of Machine Tools
See HTRAL at The SBL Workshop - Home
Virtual Machine Shop
https://atiam.train.army.mil/soldie...r/start?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=rdlservicespage
How To Use a Lathe from American Machine Tools Corp.
Grinding Your Own Lathe Tools
Lathe Threading
General Knurling Information
And don’t forget to download your FREE copies of Machinery’s handbook. Edition 5. Machinery's handbook for machine ... - Google Books
Good Luck, Mike

register said:

I don't mean to sound like a downer, but this is how it is:

Properly installing and leveling a lathe (even a generic 14x40 like yours, which has only four leveling pads and is considered relatively simple to level) takes a thorough understanding of the fundamental geometric relationships in a machine tool, a properly designed and prepared surface on which to mount it, and expensive tools.

For the work you are doing, this level of detail might be unnecessary. While the thought of improperly installing may make some people (myself included) cringe, it may be all that is practical for you.

The reason that lathes are leveled is not because they perform better when level, but rather because the gravity vector is a consistent reference that is easily used to align the variety of planes and lines that make up a lathe's bed.

The tools needed to properly align a lathe a lathe and check level (precision level, indicators, test bar, new centers, etc...) will run you in the neighborhood of $1000. Here I'm assuming that because these are your first machines, you have no tooling.

I'd focus on getting the machine running, buying the essentials for operation (and not just the cheapest tools available), spending time reading on this forum, and making parts. After you've been learning both the practice from running the machines and the theory from this board for a few weeks, you will begin to understand the geometry of the lathe and, in turn, how to properly align it.

Good luck,
Henry

Click to expand...

What the hell is a gravity vector? I've been at it a lot of years and that's a new one on me.
How about go back to the instructor that you were with for your shop class and ask him for advise. He'd probably even give you a hand.
A good machinery level and some common sense will get you there.

One thing to be mindful of: when people talk of levelling a lathe, they actually mean removing twist from the bed (if they know what they're talking about). There is no need for it to be strictly horizontal, even if you do use a level
Just bring the bubble to the same place when the level is sat firmly across the cross-slide, using the carriage to move the latter to both ends of the bed.

However ...Your OP suggests you're not doing long shaft work (where long sections need to be strictly constant in diameter) and as others have implied in this situation, as long as the machine is not rocking or grossly twisted, you can probably skip 'levelling' altogether.... which means no need for bolting down.

And if you do need to turn long parallel journals, as Mr Oder says, be guided by the 2 collar test, during which you should not be using the tailstock.

I have evolved my own way of getting a tailstock lined up, which gives a dial reading in real time as you adjust the screws, to zero the dial.
This relieves you from having to make an indirect comparison, by sweeping the indicator, or measuring collars, or whatever.

Chuck a length of bar or pipe. If the former, make a deep recess in the outboard end, the inside diameter to be somewhat smaller than your best (non-rotating) centre.

(same diameter consideration for the pipe, which would need to have a nicely cylindrical OD for chucking - if it wobbles when lightly chucked, skim the OD where you're holding it. If it still wobbles, you need to refurb or replace the chuck)

Using a SHARP boring tool, and the compound angled 30 deg from the normal parallel position, carefully skim the inside corner of the recess or hole in the pipe to simulate a large centre hole.

Clamp your magnetic base indicator to the face of the chuck, and put the probe radially against the end of the workpiece, with the probe horizontal and at centre height. Zero the dial.

Clean and insert the centre, clamp the tailstock to the bed, and push the centre into the prepared conical register.
Watch the needle, and stop pushing if it spins more than (say) one turn, so you don't permanently disturb the relativity of test bar to chuck.

If the needle moves, adjust the tailstock sideways in the correct direction to bring it back to zero. Check by withdrawing and reengaging the centre. It should move less than one division, if your indicator is of appropriate resolution for the work you plan on doing.

This is somewhat quicker than tests involving repeated turning cuts, because you only have to do the one skim every time you set the bar up again. The length of the bar should be somewhere in the 10"-20" range for a medium small lathe.

It's a nice test, not just because it gives you a real-time readout as you adjust the screws, but also it's very easy to rezero if you should bump the indicator setup. Just withdraw the centre (so the bar springs back to where it was when you turned the true reference cone), reposition the plunger if necessary (as above) and rezero the dial.

I've not seen it written up before, even by me (at least, not that I recall ... but that's not saying much)

Thank you all so much. I feel I have a place to start now and can probably impress my boss with my "vast knowledge". Just kidding. I wasn't thinking the original manuals would teach me to run the equipment. I was looking for them for lubrication and maintenance reasons. I had also considered looking my teacher up as I know he would be more than happy to offer guidance. I greatly appreciate the links and info for all the machinist books. I have a lot of reading to do. Again, thanks ever so much.

Remember this is a used lathe - we don't know how used it is.

He'll have to set it up rough, then take some test cuts to see how it
performs. Not a tough job at all. No special expensive equipment
needed.