Upgrading Heidenhain VRZ710C

Can anyone tell me what options I would have regarding upgrading an older style DRO, a VRZ710C, to a newer model, and what functions I could gain by doing so?

I really don't know much at all about these DROs, but understand the scales are specific to Heidenhain, is that correct? The existing display is just that, a display, and I wonder if it's worthwhile upgrading. I expect the process will be expensive and not worth it, but I'd value some opinions from others.

Pete

The VRZ 710C uses the old scales with 11uApp output with round 9pin connector. The replacement is the new ND 780 with LCD screen. The ND 780 accepts the 11uApp signal or 1Vpp signal. The ND 780 comes in only a three axis display but can be configured for either 1,2 or 3 axes. You will need an adpter cable for each scale because the ND 780 has D15 connectors. More detailed features can be found here HEIDENHAIN ND 780. You are going to spend around $1000 for the display and adapter cables but the features of the new display make it worth it.

Craig

Excellent info, thanks Craig. The mill is still in transit but will consider this once it arrives.

Pete

Craig I've just watched through the video and read a little on the ND780. I agree, it's a nice unit and I'm now quite keen to change the old one out. I'm not sure what the resolution is on the current scales, but do you have any idea of the cost of putting a third axis on the machine while I'm at it, it's an Aciera F3.

I like to keep commonality between things as best I can, and thought I could take the old display and put it on one of my lathes. Do you have any idea of the scale costs for a typical 10" size lathe? I understand the Heidenhain scales are very expensive.

Finally, I will probably put a digital tacho on the lathe that gets the DRO. All my machines have VFDs and the lathes in particular I vary the speed a lot using the VFD. The mills aren't so bad as I will typically select a speed on setup. The old 710 display is what it is, but the new ND780 was shown with a rotary encoder, can it be set up with a transducer and spindle speed as one of the display axis?

Pete

I would instale a new one and try to sell the HH
Probably cheaper and a lott of options
A 3 axes DRO for your F3 you can buy for about €600,- over here
Yes it will be made in China but your phone wil probably be also
Accuracy is way better than you probably can use on a F3
Its not a jig grinder

Peter from Holland

Good afternoon Pete. We can assist you in replacing the older display with the new ND780, which automatically comes with a third axis input. But even more, the ND780 has a built in encoder diagnostic feature to keep an eye on the signal strength and quality of your older scales. If you tell me the travel of the third axis, I can create a quote, with cable for you.

As far as a DRO for your lathe, give me the make/model and hard stop travels, I will create a quote for you.

Please feel free to call anytime so we can communicate in quicker, more fluid manner.

Craig, A Tech Authority, Inc
909-614-4521

Thanks Craig, I'm not sure of the Z axis travel, the machine won't arrive for a few more days, however it is an Aciera F3.

The lathe would be around the same size as a Southbend 10.

Pete

Just an update to this as the machine has now arrived, albeit with a dud channel, and I'm trying to decide which way to go with this Heidenhain gear. I prefer to stick with one brand with this type of thing if possible, so what I do with this will have implications for future purchases on other machines.

Firstly, a correction on the title, the model I have now is a VRZ 731, and not 710 as I quoted. Anyway, it's old. Fitted with LS 803 (220 + 420 mm) scales to complete the 80s retro look.

The age of the display worked in my favour, as the digital components are old technology, hence it was possible for me to find the fault in the channel without the aid of a schematic (though it took a few hours). The benefits of a past life elsewhere. I'll put in a new part and hopefully that will then be fully working.

Apart from the ND 780 display, I wonder if any other manufacturers have displays that are compatible, or could be made to be compatible, with these scales? Even the ND 780 isn't compatible without adapter cables at a hundred bucks a hit. I've been recommended the Fagor 40i by another forum member and I must admit it looks good, better than the ND 780, and I think cheaper.

Pete

Pete F said:

Apart from the ND 780 display, I wonder if any other manufacturers have displays that are compatible, or could be made to be compatible, with these scales? Even the ND 780 isn't compatible without adapter cables at a hundred bucks a hit. I've been recommended the Fagor 40i by another forum member and I must admit it looks good, better than the ND 780, and I think cheaper.

Pete

Click to expand...

Hello Pete,

Congrats on the new machine!

Would it be possible to just get the proper ends for the new readout and cut off the old ones and install the new ones?
That's what I had planned for my Heidenhain Positip install on my Deckel FP4M.

Kevin

Hi Kevin, thanks. I don't think the connectors will be the issue, I'd expect it to be more like the actual standard used by the scales. The existing ones are 11 uA sinusoidal output.

Pete

Hi Pete,

I thought I found on Heidenhains website the pinout for the 11 uA scales to the newer style connectors.
I hope I'm not mistaken but I thought you could just swap the connectors with the proper pinout configuration.
I will have to look up the info again, I will post what I find, if someone else knows please post it.

Kevin

Pete,

I found the manual and the page that I used for my reference.
Here's the link to the manual.

http://content.heidenhain.de/doku/oma_nd_pt/pdf_files/PT800/Positip880/bhb_en.pdf

The page is 114 that has the pinout diagram.

Here's the link to the ND780 manual.

http://content.heidenhain.de/doku/oma_nd_pt/pdf_files/ND700/ND780/532_852-92.pdf

The page your looking for is 222.
Hope that helps.
Best regards.

Kevin

Thanks for the manual Kevin, I've watched the demonstration video but I'll have a flick through that manual too. Based on the fact that the new display is a standard D-sub connector, I think I'll buy the female Heidenhain connectors and make up my own connector cables. 214 bucks for a couple of passive adapter cables is pretty steep in my opinion.

However my question was more related to using other manufacturer's displays with these scales. I'm particularly keen to know if the Fagor Innova 40i can be used with the Heidenhain scales.

Pete

Edit: Having read through the HH manual it seems to be functionally very similar to the Fagor 40i, with the exception of the graphical presentation of the work. Both have the threading function, I don't know if I'd ever use it on the lathe, but an interesting concept just the same. Given I cut both metric and imperial threads it would certainly be useful however. Thanks again for the link to the manual Kevin.

Well, you could consider an older type of box.
For instance, an ND760 will get you some usefull functions for milling.
And : it most likely accepts the outputsignal of your old scales.
(check the manual online to be sure)
Plus it still uses the round connectors.

I got my ND730 off of german ebay for half the price of a new ND780.