Upgrading my live center

Singtoe · Dec 11, 2018

I want your oppinions, i want to replace the thirty year old live center on my lathe. The size lathe I have is a Victor 16x60 with a #4 morse taper tailstock.

I am looking to buy once and make it the next 30 years.

Gordon Heaton · Dec 11, 2018

I like the stuff made by Royal Products. There are more and less expensive options, but to me the value for price is good with Royal.

I bought one used, and the other NOS from a forum member. You definitely don't want to pay list price, so look around.

Bill D · Dec 11, 2018

Why? Can your's be rebuilt or reground.
Bill D

iwananew10K · Dec 11, 2018

Riten.

Awesome company, great service.

RJT · Dec 11, 2018

I have several Riten live and dead centers with different geometries for manual and CNC lathes and cylindrical grinders. Always had good luck with them, and have had some repaired / rebuilt at reasonable cost and turn around. I've also used Riten for custom centers for fixtures I've made for customers. Hard to beat.

HuFlungDung · Dec 11, 2018

I've used Rotor, Skoda, Rohm. AFAIC, there's nothing wrong with any one of them that you won't notice from the get go (a manufactured dud). I have literally never blamed a single thing on a 'bad rolling center'. No center (and tailstock) is capable of pulling a part 'on center' if the chuck at the other end of the part says it ain't goin' there.

Mtndew · Dec 11, 2018

+1 to Royal
Riten, Skoda are also good too.

AARONT · Dec 11, 2018

Royal and Riten have worked well for us

iwananew10K · Dec 11, 2018

While Skoda is good it ain't no Riten.

SND · Dec 11, 2018

I have 1 Riten Heavy Duty, long point, but the body is huge on it so for some of my lathe set ups that can be an issue, though and its got real good tight bearings and I'm mostly using it just for finishing work.
My favorite for small body and good centers is Nakane.

Skoda is hobby stuff that sounds like gravel compared to either of these.

HuFlungDung · Dec 11, 2018

SND said:
I have 1 Riten Heavy Duty, long point, but the body is huge on it so for some of my lathe set ups that can be an issue, though and its got real good tight bearings and I'm mostly using it just for finishing work.
My favorite for small body and good centers is Nakane.

Skoda is hobby stuff that sounds like gravel compared to either of these.

Bull shit. I've been using a 5MT Skoda for 40 years on a 25 hp lathe, holding parts up to a thousand pounds or so, and have never heard anything so much as a squeak from the center.

FYI, take the best bearing in the world, preload it excessively and it will feel gravely when rolled. I guess if you crash it, you could damage it, but then that is not the center's fault.

Limy Sami · Dec 11, 2018

IME Skoda are excellent bang for $

HuFlungDung · Dec 11, 2018

Limy Sami said:
IME Skoda are excellent bang for $

Agreed! Some of those brands like Royal and Riten are way over priced when I last looked at them. I took a risk at buying a less expensive center, but I have not suffered any ill consequences, so I consider spending too much, as 'getting taken'.

Gordon Heaton · Dec 11, 2018

Problem is (or was) with Skoda, they didn't offer a low-profile version like this: Royal Spring-Type Live Centers

That's why I went looking and found Concentric, and then Royal. A QCTP body often gets in the way of the large-body centers. The one linked above is smaller than the tailstock ram, and while it looks light-duty the MT3 version I use is rated for a 940lb workpiece. The spring-loaded point is also a great feature, eliminating monitoring or adjusting pressure.

I don't know the history for sure, but the first one of these I bought nearly 20 years ago was made by Concentric. The last two look and perform the same as the first, but they are branded Royal and have a couple of minor upgrades like a sealed front end and easy lube port in the rear.

Mr-Mike · Dec 14, 2018

One of the few items I would used. eBay has tons of high-enders for pennies on the dollar.

michiganbuck · Dec 14, 2018

If a live center runs smooth and has no wiggle when pushed tight to part likely it is good and perhaps/most likely better than a low quality one.They need to be ground after assembly to insure near zero run-out *as .0002 on the center check will make .0004 on the part.
That was one of my jobs, to finish grind live and dead centers. I had to grind them to no detectable error under a tenths indicator. Did most on a B&S 13 grinder.
To achieve this you load them with pressure at the point and grind them running in their own bearings at perhaps 2 or 300 rpm. yes you run them for a time for warm up.

Some bargain brands can not be fixed because the shaft is not true and so even grinding assembled still will have problems.

Here find .0003 run-out.. if I did that it would be in the dumpster, and I would have been out the door.
MT2 Live Center Morse Taper 2MT Triple Bearing Lathe Medium Duty CNC 647829667535 | eBay

This is what you want 50 millionths advertised.. and very you get half of that for 25 millionths. And agree there are other top quality names out there..
http://www.royalproducts.com/img/category/upload/Live_Centers.pdf

A good/top brand used can be re-ground to near zero. Often with the same bearings.
A poor brand even with new bearings may not re-grind to better the a few tenths.

For high speed perhaps 3000 up the life center should be treated like a spindle with a little jog-start or warm-up.

projectnut · Dec 14, 2018

I'm in the same camp as Gordon. I have several Royals with differing profiles. I can't even tell you how old they are. I bought most of them in the early 1980's and they still work fine today. They aren't the cheapest on the market, but they will last a long time.

HuFlungDung · Dec 14, 2018

Where live center tip runout will get you, is if the center gets loose and rotates to a new position in the center hole in the work. Then, you'll suddenly have new eccentricity in the part to deal with. But if you keep it tight all the time, you won't notice, except if you transfer the part to another machine with a perfect center, and you'll see the eccentricity.

I deal with this quite a lot (not a bad live center, but bad center holes) in old motor rotor shafts. Even reboring the center hole is kind of a crapshoot, still might end up with 2 or 3 thousandths runout on pre-existing journals that you can't touch because they are already correct and on size. I typically just shim the part with a couple of shims tucked in the center hole with the tip of the live center. I'm aiming for 3 point support, hence two shims about 90 to 120 degrees apart, and the center tip contacting the hole on the third contact point opposite. By trial and error, I'll rotate the shims around the center tip to try to minimize the runout, then mark (with ink) where everything is so I can see if anything has drifted between cuts. Yeah, the center hole is eccentric relative to the part, but its eccentricity is irrelevant to the actual working surfaces of the rotor.

Why would I settle for less than perfection? Because, some ass hole is going to shove a gnarly old puller screw in that 'puller hole' anyways and royally screw it up for next time

andrewmawson · Dec 14, 2018

I've just bought a Rohm 4MT 'indicating' centre s/h on eBay Rated at 3500 rpm and 900 kg end thrust shown on a gauge in use.

Seems an excellent device

michiganbuck · Dec 14, 2018

Very likely all top name live centers are made between centers..then after OD grinding the point end manufacturing center is snubbed off and thee working center is ground after assembly with the live turning in its own bearings..

A bargain name/no name brand likely made in some form of chucker that is tuned to run .0001 on a good day.. and .ooo1 is way too wide a mark for a center IMHO.

but yes many/most are .0002 to even .0004 advertised error perhaps that is good enough.. put high precision bearings on a centered shaft with the ends running out Oh My goodness what a shame...
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Upgrading my live center

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