used HLV-H vs. a new clone
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  1. #1
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    Default used HLV-H vs. a new clone

    Hey folks! Been a while. I got real busy with actual machining and stopped talking about it.

    So, got a one-man shop up and running, machine work only. One of my customers sends me a lot of relatively small, pretty lathe work, in stainless, aluminum, bronze, and brass. Much of it involves cutting threads. I do it on my Webb WL435 with a 5c Bison chuck, and it works fine, but itís a bit like using a logging truck to get a load of firewood. I want to add a small lathe but I want it to be an awesome machine (like the Webb) because life is too short and Iím getting too old to dick around with crap.

    I asked on here years ago about 10eeís and HLVís and got lots of great info, but took on a line of work involving sizable castings that was perfect for the Webb and has kept me busy. Side note- the Webb really is what they say- an amazing ďonlyĒ lathe. I do everything from big castings where I have to take the gap out to small precise pretty stuff. A truly fine machine.

    Anyway, I donít want to deal with 10ee quirks; this machine will be run if not daily then close to daily. A nice used HLV-H (there's a mouthful) is the plan but I have been told by several folks now that the Taiwanese clones are excellent machines. I have to admit a brand new machine would be a hoot. My mill is 90ís Taiwanese and is a very nice machine so Iím not opposed on that level.

    Iíve got about 10 years left in these hands, Lord willing and the creek donít rise, so thatís the work envelope for the machine. Maybe 20 hours a week for a decade then itís off to the next guy and Iím off fishin.

    I will be putting a DRO on it and running mostly collets but Iíll get a high-quality Set-Tru style chuck for it too. Probably a 5Ē Bison.

    Love to hear your thoughts on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long Tom View Post
    Hey folks! Been a while. I got real busy with actual machining and stopped talking about it.

    So, got a one-man shop up and running, machine work only. One of my customers sends me a lot of relatively small, pretty lathe work, in stainless, aluminum, bronze, and brass. Much of it involves cutting threads. I do it on my Webb WL435 with a 5c Bison chuck, and it works fine, but it’s a bit like using a logging truck to get a load of firewood. I want to add a small lathe but I want it to be an awesome machine (like the Webb) because life is too short and I’m getting too old to dick around with crap.

    I asked on here years ago about 10ee’s and HLV’s and got lots of great info, but took on a line of work involving sizable castings that was perfect for the Webb and has kept me busy. Side note- the Webb really is what they say- an amazing “only” lathe. I do everything from big castings where I have to take the gap out to small precise pretty stuff. A truly fine machine.

    Anyway, I don’t want to deal with 10ee quirks; this machine will be run if not daily then close to daily. A nice used HLV-H (there's a mouthful) is the plan but I have been told by several folks now that the Taiwanese clones are excellent machines. I have to admit a brand new machine would be a hoot. My mill is 90’s Taiwanese and is a very nice machine so I’m not opposed on that level.

    I’ve got about 10 years left in these hands, Lord willing and the creek don’t rise, so that’s the work envelope for the machine. Maybe 20 hours a week for a decade then it’s off to the next guy and I’m off fishin.

    I will be putting a DRO on it and running mostly collets but I’ll get a high-quality Set-Tru style chuck for it too. Probably a 5” Bison.

    Love to hear your thoughts on this.
    "Nice used HLV-H" as needs no work done to it is already in a hidey-hole only you know where to find?

    One MIGHT go for it?

    But with ten years left of COLLET running that you want to COUNT for something.. so you CAN retire in ten?

    As-in being able to take Atlantic Salmon you can EAT instead of release along the Coast of Asturias, (Spain) .. instead of ignorant bluegill or catfish off a worm out of a mud puddle near enough yah can walk to it in shoes with holes in the soles?

    Give up the nostalgia!

    Go moderner!

    And go CNC.

    Frees-up productive time.

    Even if you chose to waste it, it will be your choice, not hourly slavery hoored-out to yester-centuries hand-cycled muscle-memories.

    Leave that "old Iron nostalgia" s**t to we who do not HAVE to make a chip, our mortgages retired ages ago, no kids nor collitch debt, our crust already direct-depositing as dividends and interest.

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    I had faced the same decision on my first metal lathe. A HLV-H or 10ee.
    At the same time the Sharp name was considered too.

    If I was buying new or wanted a HLV-H clone:

    1118H | Sharp Industries Inc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    If I was buying new or wanted a HLV-H clone:

    1118H | Sharp Industries Inc.
    that is a nice looking lathe....any idea what they sell for?

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    Found this on ebay UK

    New Linear Cyclematic CTL68e Precision Toolroom Lathe Hardinge Lathe Replacement | eBay

    From what I've seen , the clone new-price is in the same order as a professional HLV-H rebuild .

    I would say you can pick up some very good condition second hand HLV-Hs for a, lot, lot less . They are a simple lathe , most of the common problems are easily fixed and (even a spindle bearing replacement is do-able in a small workshop. They don't wear badly if treated well .

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    You might want to look at a company like Babin Machine Babin Machine Tool They have new copies and rebuilt HLV-H, with a servo threading upgrade. I have the servo upgrade on my HLV-BK and it was definitely worth the upgrade.
    You might also want to ask over on the Hardinge page of this forum as they might have a better ideas.

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    I have used a several used Hardinge HLVH lathes, some of them have pretty extreme wear on the ways near the chuck (0.002" diameter/inch). Without taking a test cut its hard to tell. Don't buy a used one unless you can take the test cut. A good used Hardinge cost as much as a new Taiwanese machine, if you are using to make a living buy the new Taiwanese machine.

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    How many parts? If a lot, go CNC. Any of the threads metric, or might be in the future? Might want an EM. I love our HLV-H here at work, but I also find it a bit uncomfortable to stand over for long periods. Probably wouldn't have been an issue 25 years ago, but things have gotten stiffer! Even well lubed, the tailstock is a pita. I do a lot of stuff that involves sliding the tailstock on my little Logan at home, that's annoying on the HLV because it isn't guided when unlocked. You have to shove it sideways. It's often better to put a drill chuck in the tool holder. The nifty compound in-out threading feature is a great timesaver, but you have to get it adjusted right so it doesn't turn the dial every time you cycle it. There's also no quick reverse; you have to use the switch on the control box. Just saying, wonderful as the HLV is, it's not perfect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    that is a nice looking lathe....any idea what they sell for?
    $15K - $20K. The Sharp mills are supposed to be the best Taiwan made machines. I think they are better than a Victor.

    On the other habd, I once looked at rebuilt HLV-H for $20k. It was perfect and I regret not buying it.

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    Thanks guys!

    RE: going CNC, typically my niche is customers needing things in quantities that donít present well for CNC. Just did a run of 28 obscure brass adaptors for pressure gauges for example. Anyway, I can average $60-$100/hr in this niche and Iím just gonna ride this pony to the finish line rather than retool for CNC. If I was 10 years younger... but Iím not.

    I also find a certain zen in doing it manually. I donít have anyone looking over my shoulder or rushing me. I bid things for how I like to work; if I get the job then I get to work how I like, if that makes sense.

    The other machine I might consider is a Takisawa which is kind of a mini-me of my Webb.

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    I know a guy that bought a new Hardinge HLV-H over 20 years ago. He also bought another Harginge 59.
    They sit side by side unused.

    His workhorse is another manual big lathe.
    Last year he bought a CNC and hired an operator for it.

    I guess the answer is : "It depends..."

    I should have added : he bought the HLV-H, used for high precision jobs. He touches it very nostalgic and says : "this was awesome before CNC".

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    If you want manual...this is hard to beat.

    "Sharp" 1118H manual lathe for sale.

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    the other thread for a used one says that the current new price for a taiwan machine is about 35k. That sounds correct to me, NOT the 15k quoted above. The last actual new Hardinge's that I have heard of, were maybe ten years ago, and they were at least 60k.
    I know a guy who, I am pretty sure, bought one about 10-12 years ago. It was be-you-ti-ful, but, at the time, about what a base model Porsche 9-11 was going for, by the time you added accessories tax and shipping.

    Me, I would go for either Sharp or Eisen. Pretty sure they all come from one Taiwan factory these days, and it just depends on who the importer is for how they are set up and what the price is
    Toolroom Lathes – Eisen Machinery Inc

    I think this is the main manufacturer left making em.
    Toolroom Lathes and Chucking Machine Supplier - Cyclematic Toolroom Lathe, Turning Lathes Exporter

    20 years ago, there were 4 or 5 factories there doing it, but they mostly have moved to all CNC lathes.

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    There is a Sharp available over on the PM machines for sale forum along with the Hurco mill!!
    Hurco VM1 for sale.

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    an hc is by far handier for general use

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    Here is a victor that just popped up on craigslist - other coast though. Has an auto-lube on the slides which might keep the wear down.

    VICTOR 618EVS TOOL ROOM LATHE - tools - by owner - sale

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    Just FYI the Sharp's mentioned here Hardinge HLV-H Lathe Copies by Sharp, Cyclematic & Barer

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    I would not use the quantity of parts as a qualifier of CNC VS manual.

    I really like manual lathe work and I do a lot of repair type stuff, but if it's a new part from raw material it gets made in a CNC.

    Any chance you'd entertain CNC at all?

    Is your username a reference to a certain river?

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    What about rebuilt Hardinge? He also sells a clone
    Babin Machine Tool

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    I would not use the quantity of parts as a qualifier of CNC VS manual.

    I really like manual lathe work and I do a lot of repair type stuff, but if it's a new part from raw material it gets made in a CNC.

    Any chance you'd entertain CNC at all?

    Is your username a reference to a certain river?
    Indeed it is!

    I mean, I suppose Iíd entertain CNC but itís just this whole can of whupass Iím loathe to open on myself at this stage of the game.

    Do you know of a machine in my (our?) area?


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