Used Surface Grinder information

I'm reading up on used Surface grinders - hobby shop but I tend towards decent stuff. I don't want less than 6x18 and could go a little larger. I can handle up to 5000 lbs but think something some lighter and using less real estate is probably the direction I'd go. I've rehabbed a bunch of machines but don't want to get into scraping ways if possible. Auto table appeals to me but also looking for opinions on two vs three axis auto and anything else deemed important.

I understand the condition is everything thing but would like direction as to models, which companies and what are the potential good and bad of various 6-18, to 8-24 machines. I'm in no hurry so once I narrow things down, I will wait and watch. Usually I decide on something and another model I've not considered comes along and sends me in a different direction but that is OK. I got the Rambaudi UR60 that way and it has turned out OK. Many say the jig bore is obsolete but I use my Moore #2 all the time. Thanks, Dave

I agree that a 6x18 surface grinder is an excellent size for a home shop. That is the size I chose. I owned a 6x12 before. This one occupies a bigger footprint but not all that much bigger.

Having owned a manual SG, I would never buy another without at least automatic traverse in the long direction. Too much cranking for me. I often use my machine with just the long feed on. It's easy to bump the crossfeed after each move of the table, and to pause things and lower the vertical feed between passes.

I wound up with a KO Lee S618HG. It isn't in perfect condition but it works OK. One day I'll start working on scraping it in. Mine has flood coolant capability which I haven't done anything with yet. A full wet kit is handy.

Another feature which I don't have but long for is an attachment point for dust collection. I ground a cast iron faceplate and hak kaff yuck black film of dust over a bunch of my shop.

Make sure yours has a functioning work light.

metalmagpie

That dealer has videos on B and S, Harig, Jakobsen, Okamoto, Jones and Shipman. Boyer Schultz, etc. They don't talk much or at all about any mechanical differences or what to look for when judging them. For instance, they never mention how accurate the machine will grind.

I also saw a Kent KSG 1020 with dust, coolant, etc for what seemed to be a decent price. The KSG is their heavier model weighing about 3600 lbs. Are they Chinese or Taiwan and any opinions as to quality. Dave

In 1979, I bought a 1929 B&S No. 2 surface grinder for $800. This was the 6 x 18 with power table feeds, bronze spindle bearings and a 12 foot leather belt and many pulleys driving the spindle. I took it apart to the last screw and saw that the ways were visibly worn. So the first additional purchase was a 30" Starrett granite straight edge and a book on scraping. The wheel guard was configured for a dust collector hose, but I had to modify it for a standard shop vac hose. Second additional purchase was a 6 x 18 fine pole permanent magnet chuck for $250. Once I had the grinder painted and back together, I found that the power feeds worked OK, but it was hard to crank manually. And the surface finish it produced was not as nice as I wanted. I got an old Parker Majestic motorized spindle for $100 and recklessly took it apart and cleaned and lubed the bearings and test ran it off my home made phase converter. I mounted the grinder head on the cross slide of my 12" lathe and made a long boring bar supported by the tailstock; an improvised horizontal boring mill. Then I bored out the bearing seats in the grinder head to allow the P-M spindle assembly to slide through. The grinder's surface finish was not as bad. I spent a few more hundred on a Dunbar roller table bearing kit and was amazed how easy it was to crank the table. Plus, there will never be any more wear on the table ways. Then I bought a freshly rebuilt XLO motorized spindle at the 1984 GE die shop auction for $700. Sold the P-M spindle. The XLO spindle finally made the old grinder into a new grinder. The table cranks so easily that I have not used the auto feed in maybe 30 years and probably forgot how to set it up.

So you want a dust collector for sure and a shop vac will do the job. A lamp (I used a Moffatt) is a must. Roller table bearings (some grinders had them as standard) mean the table ways should not need scraping. Good ways mean accuracy is possible. Power feed is OK, but a machine without roller table bearings that was used in production will have way wear. Good spindle bearings are key to producing good surface finish and accurate results. There are places that rebuild spindles, but it is expensive.

Larry

I have the DoAll 612, bought inexpensively. This one has a worklight, power longitudinal feed, and coolant. n(The coolant tank and pump and hydraulic tank and pump one on each side take extra space. I think the spindle is nice.

This machine is a little one, it does not weigh much.

Before that (and now still but not used) I had a shop made grinder: little mag chuck mounted on little table of a tiny antique Garvin horizontal miller frame, the overarm replaced by a precision arbor.

During your search, have a look at Brown and Sharpe Micromaster grinders. Okamoto is good also, and J&S, Chevalier, G&L, plenty of others. You probably won't hear much talk of precision once you reach this level of grinders, they are all pretty comparable.

When buying any grinder,always spend the time to remove dustguards and fully check the slides.......Ive seen lots of pretty looking machines with badly scored slides from lack of lube,and or grit infiltration.......Also note if any original scraping is there ,or just swirly grinding marks,indicating a regrind,which may have put all the table drive out of alignment.

Multiple problems buying a used grinder.
I use a small 6X12 plain way Harig, to grind Timken bearing spacers for hydrostatic transmissions, and other applications of Timken bearing sets.
I re-scrape the ways about every 3 to 5 years, I does not take long to re-scrape, because there is not much area to scrape, and I do not let it get out of hand.

The roller ways, are a disaster when they go bad. Always, the more simple the machine the easier it is to maintain.

That is not always true in terms of way wear at least. I have a 35 year old Micromaster that's fully hydraulic - including table lubrication. As near as I can tell having had the machine completely disassembled, the machine ways have never been touched and it still grinds flat and square across its travels within a tenth or two. Constant neverending flow of lubricating oil is a good thing for way longevity.

All is good when its good, but a used surface grinder is a real gamble, if you cant try it out.
I was in a warehouse with 50 used surface grinders recently, some of them must have been good, hard to tell a good one from a bad one in that case, no power to test, all for sale cheap. I bought the Axelson "westerner" lathe that was along a wall, its good!

Couldn't dealers in particular grind a swipe across the length on both the near and far side of a piece and measure it to give buyers an idea of how accurate the grind is? It would seem to me that something like that would justify their markup. Dave

beckerkumm said:

Couldn't dealers in particular grind a swipe across the length on both the near and far side of a piece and measure it to give buyers an idea of how accurate the grind is? It would seem to me that something like that would justify their markup. Dave

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That won't tell you how flat the part is, only how parallel. And even if you check the sample part for flatness, how sure are you that the dealer is any good at running a grinder? To get very flat parts you need to have at least a pretty good idea of what you're doing. Sucking a piece of cold roll down to the chuck and grinding both sides isn't going to tell you diddly squat.

"Easier to sell a clapped-out Axelson to a drama-queen and retire to Diamond Head Island off the profit from the advertising clicks for the composted manure and popcorn sales."

But, I work an honest day, you never have.... so sad.

All right children, go to your rooms please. You guys PM each other if you're in love, for crying out loud.

I will go back to work "in a machine shop" The troll will eat more bats for needed energy.

donie said:

I will go back to work "in a machine shop" The troll will eat more bats for needed energy.

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Looks as if you have too much "energy" already?

May as well post your recipe for them bats you've grown so fond of, then.

Or is it "first cousin to"?



Might give us a hint as to what drove you so batf**k barking mad as to confuse a 2 BR, one bath 900-odd SF residence shared with two other females on a 1/10th acre lot for a "machine shop" ???

.. much of which has to sit out in the driveway. At some other person's house?

Put Walter Mitty on LSD, and we gets a dreamer-drama-queen? Trulia and Zillow rat yah out, street views and all!

Might want to see if yer local McDonald's has sumthin' you can still handle? Besides yer own schmekel?

The imaginary hydraulic cylinder biz run off an outdoors lathe partially dis-assembled and not even hooked to power only pays....imaginary wages.

Even a FORMER Machinist would know such things.. but then again...memories are among the many advantages a "has been" holds over a "never was" ain't they?

You are basing your BS from my home shop, and disgruntled ex employee and forum member jeramy X , I think its you that needs an honest job.
As a noted forum member Morse taper 2 has verified you in person as a "pure bullshitter" You are sir, what you eat.

Back on point, I'm going to look at a close by Do All 618 2 axis grinder. Owner says it held .0002 or better but will see. Any specifics about the machine that I should check out? If it looks good, the seller will set it up with a good wheel and do some test cuts for me. Dave

I think its hard to beat, to see the machine running and working! I have never been that lucky.