Valuable Things in a Milling Machine

Hello all,
I've been working on restoring my milling machine as much as I can, and I'm starting to wonder what it's all worth! So far I've disassembled most of the machine (making sure to note how to put it back together) and cleaned most of the components. The tasks I'm working on currently are:

• stripping all the rust off of the gears or cutting new ones where badly enough rusted
• replacing all bearings inside the machine with appropriate new ones
• replacing all the cap screws for the panels and covers (some are badly stripped or just ugly)
• grinding all the paint off and re-painting
• painting the inside of the mill with POR15
• ordering new laser cut labels for the machine and replacing the old scratched/ripped ones

My real question is is what all of this is worth! I picked up the mill for $2500 with the dividing head shown. If it's not going to add any value to have the mill look new I'd still finish this anyways just for a nice looking mill in my shop. I do understand that I'm not adding any performance to the mill (aside from quieting the gears and adding a bit more life to it).

Does anyone think that it'd be worth my time to hand scrape this mill? Maybe just lap it to remove small problems with the slide? I've yet to really go to town testing the tolerances that it holds but it seems to have very little slop. Some of the possible upgrades that I'm tempted to add are:

• hand scraped ways
• new ball screws on all axes (or maybe just xy)
• DRO

Here is the vintage machinery page for the mill: Photo Index - Standard Modern Lathes, Inc. - Modern No. 2 Heavy Universal | VintageMachinery.org

So you paid $2500 for a dividing head. Old horizontals aren't worth what they cost to move. It would be like restoring an old Rambler. If you enjoy working on it and are having fun, knock yourself out. But don't expect to ever come close to breaking even.

If you are doing it to re-sell the machine at a profit, you've already lost money. You cannot just look at the value of the machine, the only question is how much money can you make, or save, by having the machine?

I'd love to think all my machines will sell for more than I paid for them, but the real numbers would probably make me cry.

So, one measure of 'worth' is: will it stay accurate enough for your purposes before it rusts away from the inside? I would say it's very likely it will, and would have. To me, this means the time and effort in the Por 15 job could have been spent elsewhere. But it's still ok that it means something to you.

But the key question is, will it mean something to the buyer? Time will tell on that one.

I think this thread really shows that the forum's discussion guidelines need some revision. I would far prefer to discuss problems with using a cheap import machine to make real parts than to discuss what is and is not "worth it" in a restoration. If you don't already know what is "worth it" to you and what is not, then why are you even doing anything with it?

Do what you want. Take photos along the way. Post the results - bragging is OK. And get on with your life.

I disagree with the above about horizontal mills being of little value. Nope, they don't do everything the verticals mills do but, yep, they can do somethings the verticals are not good at, so they have some value for that. For person like me they have the additional value of being interesting well engineered machines all by themselves, before they are even used for anything, and others may feel the same way, also.

Is it worth it? Most of what you have outlined so far is your own labor.

As noted, the gears and bearings may make it run smoother and quieter but probably will not improve its accuracy or precision. I would assess the condition of the ways, spindle and such that makes the machine a productive machine, not one that gleams while it sits in the corner unused. Don't fall into the trap of so many of the "rebuilders" that put a shiny coat of paint on and call it rebuilt. We call those "rattle can rebuilders". And don't expect to make a bundle by reselling when you are done.

Tom

Have a look at what abom79 on youtube does with his horizontal, Keith Fenner as well- some really interesting work and creative setups are possible. I don't think I'd choose a horizontal as the only mill but if there's already a vertical available a horizontal makes a lot of sense, assuming suitable work of course...

northernsinger said:

I disagree with the above about horizontal mills being of little value. Nope, they don't do everything the verticals mills do but, yep, they can do somethings the verticals are not good at, so they have some value for that. For person like me they have the additional value of being interesting well engineered machines all by themselves, before they are even used for anything, and others may feel the same way, also.

Click to expand...

By value, I was clearly referring to resale value. I had one for a long time and I wish I still did. Worth it's weight in gold when I needed it. Try to sell one though. CANNOT give the fuckers away. UNLESS, if you have the vertical head you've got a treasure.

KevinPartner said:

Hello all,
I've been working on restoring my milling machine as much as I can, and I'm starting to wonder what it's all worth! So far I've disassembled most of the machine (making sure to note how to put it back together) and cleaned most of the components. The tasks I'm working on currently are:

• stripping all the rust off of the gears or cutting new ones where badly enough rusted
• replacing all bearings inside the machine with appropriate new ones
• replacing all the cap screws for the panels and covers (some are badly stripped or just ugly)
• grinding all the paint off and re-painting
• painting the inside of the mill with POR15
• ordering new laser cut labels for the machine and replacing the old scratched/ripped ones

My real question is is what all of this is worth! I picked up the mill for $2500 with the dividing head shown. If it's not going to add any value to have the mill look new I'd still finish this anyways just for a nice looking mill in my shop. I do understand that I'm not adding any performance to the mill (aside from quieting the gears and adding a bit more life to it).

Does anyone think that it'd be worth my time to hand scrape this mill? Maybe just lap it to remove small problems with the slide? I've yet to really go to town testing the tolerances that it holds but it seems to have very little slop. Some of the possible upgrades that I'm tempted to add are:

• hand scraped ways
• new ball screws on all axes (or maybe just xy)
• DRO

Here is the vintage machinery page for the mill: Photo Index - Standard Modern Lathes, Inc. - Modern No. 2 Heavy Universal | VintageMachinery.org

Click to expand...

Nice looking Horizontal and a valuable addition to any shop. Since you have given so much care to fixing this machine up it seems that you might as well do everything else and keep the machine. The fact that you have such a good reworked machine by your own hand means that by keeping it and putting it to work it can pay you much more profit by keeping it and having it repay you for your care.

It would take you 1-3 years to learn scraping, acquire the necessary equipment, and scrape in your mill. This from a guy (not me) who did that, working nights and weekends when his marriage would stand the strain, who had lots of friends with scraping stuff and who started out knowing how to scrape.

A big big job. Would it pay? Hell, no!

metalmagpie

Looks like a half decent machine. Don't make work for yourself. Paint looks ok,just clean. By all means deep clean,change oils,keep well lubed and clean and it will go on and on. Slides not too bad-leave well alone. My old Edgwick horizontal has horrible yard-brush paint job(prob tart her up when I have time!),and the table is a tad tight each end. But I keep the slides spotless and she works well. Don't fix what ain't broke!

Having made the same mistakes meself as to tear-down and painting, I'd have to agree with Ted.

FIRST see to the spindle, bearings, drive system for it.

NEXT to the ability of (at least) the long-axis to run reasonably true and full travel.

THEN assess how much further to go.

Hate to do a full cosmetic restoration, still have a wonky machine of limited use, then find I had serious money still to invest before it was of much more use than a bleedin' decorator.

No ball screws on a horizontal! Those are for CNC machines and will allow the work to backfeed cutting forces. You will NEVER climb cut on a horizontal with ball screws, as it will simply snatch the work under the cutter with no resistance.

My first couple of machines got the full teardown, stripping, repaint treatment... then I got over it as I watched them go back to looking like they did when I got them after several years of use. Now, I just make sure they are mechanically sound and repair any issues and then let them run.

As for the most valuable things in a milling machine, it is really three things... rigidity, rigidity and rigidity. Only way to improve it is to add more rigidity, which your horizontal has in excess.

I'm one of the those who only "restore" a machine to the point it will be fully functional and as accurate as when originally built. Somehow shinny paint and brightly polished chrome are of no interest. I have never purchased a machine (new or used) with the intention of making a profit selling it weeks, months, or years down the road. I intend to use it for as long as I can making pieces and parts that fit properly and perform to expectations.

All of my machines have some battle scars. I try my darndest not to add any, but sometimes when wielding around large weldments or other oversized parts I scratch the paint. I hate it when I do it, but more because I wasn't being careful enough than because I bruised the finish on my pride and joy machine.

Every time I run across a 50+ year old machine with a shinny paint job I ask myself, What was this machine doing all those years that it looks like it just came off the showroom floor? Is it really in great shape, or is the seller trying to fool someone? Does it work as good as it looks?

Given the extent of the repairs you've already made I would guess you're under water unless someone paid you to take the machine. Gears rusted to the point they need replacement, and needing to paint interior surfaces with POR 15 tell me the machine was not well taken care of. Adding the expense of lead screws (not ball screws) and scraping the ways will almost insure there's no chance you will turn a profit on it.

On the other hand if you want the machine to be a show piece in your own shop, and a testament to your restoration abilities go for it. Personally If you intend to keep the machine the money you're intending to spend on cosmetics will be far better spent on tooling.