Van Norman Boring Bar

I'm not real sure if this is the place to post. But, I've just purchased a Van Norman 944S boring bar, and tool/accessories kit. However, the toolbit installed does not match the two in my kit. And, it is much thicker than the ones in the kit. Also, it does not fit my micrometer. Does anyone know if the toolheads are interchangeble on the different VN boring bars? Or, if this one is correct, is there a missing spacer, to take up the gap when the correct toolbit is installed? Thanks for any and all help. I've never had one of these before, and it is a really nice machine.

Jack

[ 03-12-2007, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: Jack Hester ]

Goodson carries most every accessory for the VN944S. If you have broadband, you may want to download their online catalog (16.7 Mb), click here. Look on pages 86-87.

You can also contact Winona Van Norman, click here.

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Barry Milton

Barry -

I notice from you profile that you have an interest in Harleys. I restore old Harleys, and soon, a 1947 Indian Chief (basket case) that I've had since '76. A good friend of mine has been taking care of all my cylinder boring needs, for the past several years. He's a perfectionist, and all his machine work reflects such. Anyway, thanks for the heads-up on Goodson. I'll head that way right now.

Jack

Jack, Van Norman made at least two model 944 boring bars, 944 and 944S. The S stands for suction and was used for boring blocks still installed in vehicles. There was a vacuum attachment for it that sucked the cuttings up through the bit and the the bit was extra-thick to provide room for the vacuum passage. The 944 was used for boring stripped blocks, so didn't need the thick tool bit. It sounds like you have a tool kit for the 944 instead of for your 944S.My memory of the S model is fuzzy, but I still am using a 944 and 777 bar for my block work. Hope this helps. Ed

Ed -

Mine has the hollow shaft for suction, and a place to put the tool for metal chip pickup. According to the picture, the tool straddles the tool bit, with the bit protruding through a small hole in the pickup tool. I can't remember the name of the pickup tool. But, it has almost the same face as the catspaws. It says I'm supposed to have two lengths of this pickup tool. I have neither. Anyway, I'm sure that I can use the boring bar, as is. But, I will continue to look for the proper tooling, to make it complete. My kit is complete for the 944S. My machine model says it's a 944S. The tool holder on the end is throwing me for a loop. Wish I could see a complete one, just for comparison. Thanks for your reply. Makes me want to go back out to the shop to look at it. But, it's past bedtime. Have a good one.

Jack

Jack: E-Bay motors has a person who sells manuals of the Van Normans. I have the 777S that I want to take apart and clean and can't find the original parts breakdown. He sells repros of the parts and owners manual for $20. I just bought one to have for reference! You might get some help there. I can use the bar but can't answer the question! good luck! No affilliation with the E-Bay people either!!!!!

Steve

....boring blocks still installed in vehicles.

Click to expand...

Do people actually do that?
Cars, trucks, heavy equipment...?
Tell me more.
Thanks
SM

SlicerMan, I have heard of that being done in the old days. I have changed the rod and main bearings a couple of times while the engine was in the car. I said that next time I would pull it out first.

I just picked up a Van Norman myself, I think a 944. The manual I got with it includes how to run the "Super Suck-R-Outer" or whatever they oh, so imagnitively named the chip removal system.

And yes, I'm given to understand that it was quite commonplace to rebuild the engine in situ. Not necessarily leaving the crank, etc, in place, but basically leaving the block, because that was the only thing one or two guys with hand tools couldn't easily remove.

Or store- remember, they didn't have $35 Chinese import engine stands at the time.

Also keep in mind that was typically the days of the inlines- straight sixes and straight eights and the like. The boring bar could sit right on top eas easily in the engine compartment as it could on the stand.

I have yet to run my boring bar- my shop's crammed full to the gills, and that's assuming we're talking about the fish up on the weathervane- but it appears in good shape, and I got a beat-up but fairly complete kit to go with it. New in the pack diamond wheel, a couple of (used) tool bits, a couple of tool blocks, a full set of catheads, the supposedly rare (and from the Goodson catalog, expensive, tool setting micrometer, etc.

I have a shopful of engines that need to be redone, and if I can get two V-8s done, the bar'll have paid for itself.

I'd be interested to hear others' experiences with this sort of bar. I know I won't get four-decimal-place accuracy, and it can't correct misaligned bores like a rigid machine can (it also can't bore with a torque plate in place) but most of what I need/want to build are cheap street motors for grocery-getters anyway.

Doc.

Doc -

"(it also can't bore with a torque plate in place)"

I must fabricate and use a fixture to hold my antique motorcycle cylinders. Which will also substitute as a torque plate. Cylinders are mounted upside down, the base being the area that needs the most support. They must have a torque plate of some kind, as distortion is obvious.

But, I believe your comment is in reference to automobile blocks, only. I have two new torque plates for Ford 351C blocks, that I bought a couple of decades ago, when I was going through my 351 Cleveland craze. Loved them engines. Anyway, it's been a couple of decades since I bought them, or looked at them. But, I'm thinking that they had threaded holes on them, just for mounting and locking down a boring bar. I will have to look, now, to be sure that I'm right. One thing I don't have to check. They were some kinda heavy. And, I remember the UPS guy asking me if I had anymore of them coming.

My point is that I bought them for use when boring, whenever I got around to getting a boring bar. Now, I don't build an Clevelands, or any other automotive engines. Just antique motorcycles. Lot easier to pick up the parts.

Jack

Doc -

Meant to ask you. If you have the means to post a picture, or can email me one, could you snap some of the toolhead end of your boring bar? I want to see the difference in mine and yours, as my toolbit (installed) is much larger than the two that are in my tool kit. And, my toolkit is for the 944S. Thanks.

Jack

Slicerman,
done all the time in the field, like in loggin for instance, bore out the dozer, skidder engines right on the side of the mountain
Jim

Jack- I think I can find a camera or two... You need the whole 8.2 megapixel RAW file?

Seriously though, I'd be happy to snap a pic. I've been meaning to get the thing on the bench and start sorting it out anyway. You'll have to give me a day or two though, 'cause at the moment, I don't have any bench space.

Doc.

Doc -

You have a bench space problem, too? I'm going to try and snap some of mine, tonight. I'm working late these days. But, I'll make a point to get some. I'll post mine as soon as I reduce the resolution and get them online. Thanks for any and all help.

Jack

Learned a lot tonight, about my tool. While I was snapping pictures, it dawned on me that I've been trying to make my tool kit be the correct one for my boring bar. It's not. It says 944, not 944S. It does not have provisions for the chip collector hoods, that fit over the toolbit. My bar does. My guess is that sometime in the past, the wrong tool kit was put with this boring bar, and previous owners have not been able to use it as it should. Which explains why the whole unit has such a new look, with some pitting from sitting, neglected. Anyway, I'm satisfied to have made this resolution. Now, I must find the correct tool kit. Fortunately, a very detailed parts list came today. And, the tool kit shown in it has way lots more that mine does. And, mine is about 99% complete. Here are some pictures of the toolhead, anyway:







Thanks for listening. I'll post more, when I am able to find the correct kit. Looks like buddy Pat will still get some work, for a while to come.

Jack

Done a little research. Seems the micrometer for the 777S is the same for the 944S. Meaning the toolbits interchange, though there is a slight difference in length. The the chip remover hoods are the same (two lengths). Catspaws are the same. So, I'm better off than I thought. I can be on the lookout for a 944S or 777S toolkit. If anyone knows of either, please let me know. Thanks for any and all help.

Jack

Hi Jack

I have owned a few 944 Van Normans, I do not recall a difference in the cutter head arrangements, the tip holder in your pics looks like a modern adaptation for using triangular tips. The original Van Norman cutter tip can be seen in this pic.



An English boring bar manufacturer, Shaftsbury Precision Services, offered an alternative cutter tip much more triangulated than the Van Norman type, but this fitted the standard VN tip holder.

I still have one 944 (cant remember if it is an S or not) if you need info let me know.

regards

Brian

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I have a question.

What a 944 worth, minus the tools? A guy semi-local to me has one listed on CL for $350.

He says it's in good condition, whatever that means. At that price is this something worth driving 80miles to see?

van norman boring bar

Cole, I have been using and paying attention to the engine boring tools since the mid 60's and early on with a craving for a usable boring bar of my own, I came across several Van Norman bars without tooling and was distressed at the scarcity of affordable complete tool sets.
The only way I would buy a bar without tools is if I knew I could find a set or had another complete machine and tools that could share the tools.
The tool set can bring as much as the boring bar and is harder to find by itself.
The 777 machines are newer and have some advantages and are easier to find--probably can find one complete for 750-1200 dollars.

Hey Guys maybe one of you knows this but i have a 944s that just stripped the brass worm gear and im trying to replace it but don't know how to get it off the shaft or be able to dissemble it.... any help would be appreciated
I also just purchased the manual for part numbers