Vegetable Oils as Cutting Fluids in Mist Coolant Systems. - Page 2
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    I have the sticky residue issue with the commercial coolant I now own, it's canola oil based and I don't like it at all. I used a mix of ballistol earlier and it never left any sticy residue. I am contemplating going back to it, or buying a mineral oil based concentrate.

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    I use Unist brand, it's 70$ a gallon and lasts me 6 months or more. I've used others in the past and gooed up all the o'rings in the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim9lives View Post
    Veggie oil = stink...rancid...flies...etc.

    In a pinch.yeah...but for constant use, I don’t think so. Wouldn’t be my choice. Lots of better choices in my opinion
    It's a Vegan machine shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad Hoffman View Post
    Oil in the lungs is really bad. Almost like vaping! Buy the right stuff and quit messing around.
    How is the "right stuff" better on your lungs? I would bet synthetic oil in your lungs is worse than canola oil. Water soluble oil and we are 98% water.. sure that's sounds good.

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    YES!

    I would not even try it. Mist, drip, brush on, or flood; just forget it.

    Personally I prefer oil based coolants for the lubricant effect, but I do understand the need for cooling in many situations. I do not like the idea of mist cooling. I don't want to be breathing in whatever they put in it. I don't smoke or vape either.



    Quote Originally Posted by Illinoyance View Post
    Veggie oil also oxidizes to a sticky varnish and is damned difficult to remove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    How is the "right stuff" better on your lungs? I would bet synthetic oil in your lungs is worse than canola oil. Water soluble oil and we are 98% water.. sure that's sounds good.
    The reason products like “Koolmist” can be trusted is because there are decades of experience and research proving the safety in humans of prolonged exposure to the components used in the way the product is intended for use. We don’t have to bet on it. Look up the SDS. It is certified as safe—-even in California :-)

    Such certifications are not casually provided by regulatory agencies. The vaping products incriminated in recent investigations had no certifications and were novel (read that as risk completely unknown) uses turned loose on humans with no safety research prior to release. In the case of the vaping oil used it was heated to more than 350 degrees in the vaping device and then inhaled. No one knows, even now, what happens to the vape product when heated and then inhaled. Plenty of careful research is ongoing though.

    An interesting note on smoking and vaping is that there is no known safe use of these products. There are no other products that can be legally sold in the US that also have no know safe use.

    Denis

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgfoster View Post
    The reason products like “Koolmist” can be trusted is because there are decades of experience and research proving the safety in humans
    I don't see evidence of research on the topic. Got a link?

    MSDS says: "Inhalation: Excessive inhalation of product mist may cause mild irritation"

    I'm pretty cynical. What I imagine is they do up front research on lab rats to get above claim. If it doesn't kill them quickly, they're good to go.

    Once in circulation, it's on the subject to prove the chemical killed them. Things like "mild irritation" accumulated over decades that turns into something worse is hard to pin on one thing, so "decades of use" is something, but doesn't prove it's not harmful. Look at smoking: it took many decades to gather conclusive research data to prove it's harmful.

    Vaping is in its infancy. By our standard medical research methods, you'd have to wait decades (for it to kill off lots of people) to scientifically prove it did it.

    Kool mist does not have the sample size and it never will, so actually proving anything health related will never happen. That's one product. There are a host of coolants used in machining. With that, there are umpteen different compounds so the sample size for each one is again very small. These products are designed for heat transfer, not health. I do not believe they are less dangerous in your lungs than vegetable oil.

    I consider all the stuff hazardous and try not to breath it and minimize skin contact. I'd try to avoid getting a mister at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illinoyance View Post
    Veggie oil also oxidizes to a sticky varnish and is damned difficult to remove.
    Yes, but actually the varnish is easy to remove - just use paint stripper. Varnish is just catalyzed vegetable oil.

    I use 5f5, one of the methylene chloride based strippers. Beware strippers that are based on lye - these will damage aluminum.

    War story: Many years ago, I came upon a vitreous enameled cast iron pot of good manufacture that had been thrown away because it had a burnt mess sticking to the bottom. I slathered it with 5f5 and put the lid back on. An hour later, all the burnt glop was easily removed. Then washed it with Bon Ami scouring powder (that will not scratch the vitreous enamel) to remove the dried 5f5 film.

    My wife likes this pot a lot. But she now calls me "Chemical Ali".

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    JMO, in general, I think it's a safe assumption that breathing anything that isn't regular Earth air, is not good for Earthlings.

    On the topic of using Vegetable oil as coolant, that's stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    I don't see evidence of research on the topic. Got a link?

    MSDS says: "Inhalation: Excessive inhalation of product mist may cause mild irritation"

    I'm pretty cynical. What I imagine is they do up front research on lab rats to get above claim. If it doesn't kill them quickly, they're good to go.

    Once in circulation, it's on the subject to prove the chemical killed them. Things like "mild irritation" accumulated over decades that turns into something worse is hard to pin on one thing, so "decades of use" is something, but doesn't prove it's not harmful. Look at smoking: it took many decades to gather conclusive research data to prove it's harmful.

    Vaping is in its infancy. By our standard medical research methods, you'd have to wait decades (for it to kill off lots of people) to scientifically prove it did it.

    Kool mist does not have the sample size and it never will, so actually proving anything health related will never happen. That's one product. There are a host of coolants used in machining. With that, there are umpteen different compounds so the sample size for each one is again very small. These products are designed for heat transfer, not health. I do not believe they are less dangerous in your lungs than vegetable oil.

    I consider all the stuff hazardous and try not to breath it and minimize skin contact. I'd try to avoid getting a mister at all.

    Your point of view is quite reasonable. I can not cite known references on safety except by knowing that it is stipulated in the SDS that if there is insufficient evidence to determine safety that such must be stated. The SDS reports are written in consultation with physicians specializing in industrial medicine who have ready access to pulmonologists, pulmonary medicine researchers, and a good deal of research literature not available through a simple free Google search. I don’t know of an instance of factual misrepresentation of an SDS.

    It is also true that it took a long time to officially declare cigarettes unsafe even though it was generally understood long before that they were harmful. Much of that delay was due to an extremely well funded and now well known conspiracy to conceal scientific research showing harm. I doubt Koolmist et al are so involved.

    Proving a negative is, obviously, an impossible task. But it is also known that the ether used in Koolmist is in a class of chemicals generally safe for use as intended. Whereas it is also well known that mineral oils inhalation can cause severe illness or death. Looking for toxicity reports on inhalation of vegetable oils also failed to reveal reports of significant harm.

    We are each free to have the cynicism level and risk aversion we feel comfortable with. My assessment is that Koolmist is probably one the least worrisome safety issues most of us will encounter in the shop.

    Denis

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    Thank you,

    I would be very interested in seeing your PDF. Did you ever run into the vegetable oil burning off? Or was it an effective enough cooling medium? Sorry for the late reply I got sick and haven't had time to check PM.

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    Conrad Hoffman & Mhajicek,

    Sorry for asking an honest question? Several people have been very helpful, and either provided resources validating the idea, or evidence against the application. All you have done is "trolled" and made jokes. Please take your poor sense of humor else where.
    Last edited by AidanWeber; 11-20-2019 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Forgot Names

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    Agreed, none of this stuff is great. Oil/Plastic fumes are bad and carcinogenic, fine Alum. and Steel dust cause lung cancer, and my finger prints have been burned and scraped off. That's Machining in a nutshell. I think I pissed some people off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie_obe View Post
    It's a Vegan machine shop.
    I'm gonna say the same thing as before... sorry for asking a question. Also if my memory holds, whale oil and lard have been used long before petroleum based coolant mixtures.

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    MQL systems use mostly air and a very small and consistent/slow drop of some form of coolant. We have used KoolMist mixed at, 20oz Water to 1oz Concentrate for a somewhat rich mixture. Its very efficient and the coolant last a long time. We have maybe a 1/2 gallon resevoir and when full that lasted roughly a year before it turned to chocolate milk. I would argue that the spray and bacteria growth in flood systems is signifigantly worse for the machinist when refering to a risk of ingestion. The mist is controlled and minimal, where as by using a flood system it leaves a fine cloud in the air that you get to breathe when you open up the doors of whatever CNC mill you use.

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    Going Forwards, can we please keep the comments on the "Stupidity" of the application to a minimum? I understand that it is not always optimal. And I gladly field and reply to comments with evidence and experience. But single lines making jokes about "vaping" or "vegans" do not pertain to the topic I was asking about.

    To recap. I'm asking what experience people have with using vegetable/natural coolant mediums. Pros and Cons. I fully support the use of KoolMist and other Petroleum Based Coolant mediums. I simply am interested in an alternative. The coolant will be used in a Mist Coolant System that uses MQL coolants but claims it can run "almost any fluid".

    Thank you for feedback and quality evidence/experience,
    AidanW.

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    I have not used an MQL system. I bought a mister for my manual lathe and used it briefly with a mist compound, BioMist EP. It created a big cloud of mist. I confess, I switched to canola oil and it didn't really mist, it more sputtered. The effect I observed is much less got in the air. It worked fine for light use. I had no issue with spoilage or cleanup. At my last job, there was a general aversion among the machinist to misters because they didn't want to breathe it. My 2 cents. Good luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmosK View Post
    I have not used an MQL system. I bought a mister for my manual lathe and used it briefly with a mist compound, BioMist EP. It created a big cloud of mist. I confess, I switched to canola oil and it didn't really mist, it more sputtered. The effect I observed is much less got in the air. It worked fine for light use. I had no issue with spoilage or cleanup. At my last job, there was a general aversion among the machinist to misters because they didn't want to breathe it. My 2 cents. Good luck
    Thank you, thats very helpful.

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    I have a Fogbuster that I like alot. I use a generic product called, "vanishing oil". I think I got a gallon from McMaster. I put alitte Marvel Mystery oil in with it just because. It seemed to work on alum. as well as steel, and doesn't leave a mess, and certainly won't rust anything. Is it killing me? Not a clue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AidanWeber View Post
    Conrad Hoffman & Mhajicek,

    Sorry for asking an honest question? Several people have been very helpful, and either provided resources validating the idea, or evidence against the application. All you have done is "trolled" and made jokes. Please take your poor sense of humor else where.
    Okay, here's your helpful answer. It's a bad idea, and you could have had the right stuff delivered by now if you had ordered it when asking your question. Some people spend a lot of time and effort trying to save a little time and effort. Just do it right and things will go a lot more efficiently.


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