Vegetable Oils as Cutting Fluids in Mist Coolant Systems. - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by AidanWeber View Post
    Going Forwards, can we please keep the comments on the "Stupidity" of the application to a minimum? I understand that it is not always optimal. And I gladly field and reply to comments with evidence and experience. But single lines making jokes about "vaping" or "vegans" do not pertain to the topic I was asking about.

    To recap. I'm asking what experience people have with using vegetable/natural coolant mediums. Pros and Cons. I fully support the use of KoolMist and other Petroleum Based Coolant mediums. I simply am interested in an alternative. The coolant will be used in a Mist Coolant System that uses MQL coolants but claims it can run "almost any fluid".

    Thank you for feedback and quality evidence/experience,
    AidanW.
    Pardon us for being concerned about your health. You asked your question at the same time vaping deaths hit the news cycle. Turns out the cause maybe vitamin E oil(think vegetable oil). I have a couple of samples of vegetable oil based tapping fluids. I do use them but clean up the taps, parts, and such right away as I know what it will be like if you let it sit for a while.
    I use the Trico oil for my CNC milling set up. Running very lean with it I made my first gallon last about 15 years. I am about 5 years into my second gallon now. No health effects noted. Even though it is just sputtering the oil does get many places. Your canola oil will do the same and will probably harden in places you do not reach when doing your normal clean up.
    A couple of years from now, will it have some unexpected adverse affect like vitamin E oil. Who knows.
    About the jokes, I have heard a good laugh a day is better for you than the old apple a day. See we were looking out for you there too.

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  3. #42
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    vegetable oil is not like lard oil nor is it like a dark sulfur oil. It's probably as worthless as motor oil for cutting metals.
    And of course you didn't say what you are cutting: Metals Alum Steel Brass? Plastics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raul McCai View Post
    vegetable oil is not like lard oil nor is it like a dark sulfur oil. It's probably as worthless as motor oil for cutting metals.
    And of course you didn't say what you are cutting: Metals Alum Steel Brass? Plastics?

    Actually, both vegetable oils and animal fats/oils are comprised mostly of triglycerides. These break down in high shear conditions (think cutting tool...) to produce active components which will happily bond with freshly cut metal surfaces and keep them from joining back together again. Fossil/dinosaur oil has the triglycerides decayed into straight alkanes, which are very unreactive (that's where the word paraffin comes from). That's why chlorine or sulfur additives are needed for them to work as cutting oils. The hardening ability of the oils comes from the proportion of unsaturated carbon-carbon bonds in their molecules. Saturated fats/oils are worse for your health for eating, but better if you don't want to get varnish all over your workshop.

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhajicek View Post
    Okay, here's your helpful answer. It's a bad idea, and you could have had the right stuff delivered by now if you had ordered it when asking your question. Some people spend a lot of time and effort trying to save a little time and effort. Just do it right and things will go a lot more efficiently.
    I just refilled the tank with a 20:1 mixture of KoolMist. I was asking for future use. There isn't one right answer and I've never pesonaly used a vegetable or mineral oil coolant. Mineral Oil has been used forever but has signifigant health side affects if my memory holds. But it works just as well as petroleum oils. It seems you are speaking from experience using petroleum oils, and are a very by the book machinist. So, since you have nothing useful to say... or experience/evidence to provide...

  7. #45
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    Thanks, I was interested in the health side affects, which I am not familiar with. I go by "if its not air or water why are you breathing/drinking". Burning petroleum vs. vegetable oil, both are bad. I wasn't annoyed with the warning, but was hoping for some more evidence and facts. The jokes are fine, but several were a little rude.

    Thank you for being Concerned,
    -AidanWeber

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raul McCai View Post
    vegetable oil is not like lard oil nor is it like a dark sulfur oil. It's probably as worthless as motor oil for cutting metals.
    And of course you didn't say what you are cutting: Metals Alum Steel Brass? Plastics?
    My shop primarily mills Alum. 6061 or 7050 and Mild steel. Though on our CNC and Lathe we cut Poly Carb. PVC and Acrylic's.

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Actually, both vegetable oils and animal fats/oils are comprised mostly of triglycerides. These break down in high shear conditions (think cutting tool...) to produce active components which will happily bond with freshly cut metal surfaces and keep them from joining back together again. Fossil/dinosaur oil has the triglycerides decayed into straight alkanes, which are very unreactive (that's where the word paraffin comes from). That's why chlorine or sulfur additives are needed for them to work as cutting oils. The hardening ability of the oils comes from the proportion of unsaturated carbon-carbon bonds in their molecules. Saturated fats/oils are worse for your health for eating, but better if you don't want to get varnish all over your workshop.
    So what would your reccomend, or how would you break down their uses/effectivness.

  10. #48
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    Not sure if I would run it though a mister without thinning it but bacon fat/ lard is a very old and time tested cutting oil. Here is a discussion about it:
    "Hog Lard" as a Cutting Fluid?

  11. #49
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    You can make your own lung friendly soluable oil coolant with 9 parts water, one part vegatable oil, and enough lecithin to emulsify. You gane get a lifetime supply of lecithin on Amazon. Wotks great and the lecithin contributes to the cutting action. Ive used it for years.

    Keep one quart of cheap salad oil mixed with a healthy tablespoon of lecithin handy as you would soluable oil concentrate. It's about the same price overall, works a little better, and has a year + shelf life. Mix with hot tap water.

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  13. #50
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    To make sulphurized cutting oil you need to chemically react some sulphur with a triglyceride such as animal fats: Castrol Ilocut 154 or pretty much any kind of vegetable oil such as Canola (Rapeseed oil). You can heat the vegetable oil with 6-12% sulphur until the sulphur melts at 150 deg C or so, hold it for an hour or two at that temperature and the sulphur will react with the canola oil and form a very dark black-red substance the same colour as cola. If you then cool it and mix the result 10% with the balance of mineral oil (like used hydraulic oil for example) you'll have your sulphurized cutting oil. You can dissolve 20%+ sulphur into canola oil but you will end up a with a solid rubber like substance on cooling and even at levels above 12% you will have black sulphur solids condensing out of the mix over a period of months (like some commercial products) so I stick to 10% sulphur in canola and then add 10% of the result into mineral oil.

    Mineral oils can't be directly sulphurized without some sort of chemical treatment such as with sulphuric acids US3309315A - Sulphurized cutting oil and process
    of making same - Google Patents


    Currently I'm getting positive results with soluble oil experiments by making an emulsifier similar to sulphonated castor oil (turkey red oil), in my case sulphonated/sulphated rice bran oil, to end up with an emulsifier concentrate suitable for making soluble oil. So far it behaves identically to old school soluble oil and stays emulsified for weeks at a time if undisturbed in a container and the PH is kept above 8. If the PH is below 8 the emulsifier will separate from the water as a separate layer.
    Last edited by SAG 180; 11-23-2019 at 05:12 PM.

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