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  1. #61
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    Here's a drill press with 10" of quill travel.Johansson radial arm drill press | eBay

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    Quote Originally Posted by rustytool View Post
    Here's a drill press with 10" of quill travel.Johansson radial arm drill press | eBay
    Those can work.

    But lay down as many feet - or miles - of narrow-gage rail as you have space or money for, and a horizontal drill will eat its lunch with far less risk of tipping over in transport.

    More seriously, drawer slides, Unistrut, barn-door support rail, dovetails, box ways, rod with bronze or nylon bushings ... clear out to precision linear bearings, and a low-profile horizontal drilling head does, in fact, find rather a lot of gainful employment in the woodworking industry.

    Centering on variable-width stock? Self-centering clamps and vises certainly have been used a time or three as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Would I have wasted so much time on you if I were otherwise?
    That isn't remotely difficult, here. An AB5/S has a 9 1/2" quill stroke, power feed and reversing, plenty of table space for fixturing, over 4,000 lbs of mass to resist tipping-over from the weight of the planks. Only thing I'd need to even leave the house for would be more medium-length extended reach wood drills than I already keep handy. Typically but three. Not near enough to sustain volume production. I could just order them, online.

    Even so, a metalworking AB5/S is STILL not the best tool for this task. For starters, you can no longer buy them, new. Nor does wood drilling need their mass or oily nature. A Powermatic DP with foot or air actuation would be closer.

    Horizontal drilling with vertical adjust still looks best to me. CNC the b**ch, give it sensors to align with the stock. Holes can be made to happen.

    On YOUR patch, absent the equipment - extending the reach of a too-small metalworking milling machine is not going to bring you ANY of that speed, idiot-resistance, flexibility, rapid setup time, ergo certainly NOT a gain in productivity.

    We'd class it progress if you have at least moved away from that initial plan.

    You still have a ways to go, though.

    Carry on! Better yet - present us with a BETTER solution than any among us have offered YOU.

    Folks do that clever s**t all the time - PM or elsewhere.

    Part of why WE come here is to gain the advantage of learning from those new contributions just as much as from OLD or revived ones that some other Pilgrim had had sight of or hands on - but we had not.

    "Stone soup party" PM has been called. A big one.

    Personalities? Yeah, as with arseholes, everybody has at least one.

    Best not to confuse the two, though. Gets the laundry all smelly.

    See look, you did it
    A helpful response without the condescending tone and even with a real machine in there!
    Thank you.

    I would love to just use the CNC router, but it's already pretty tied up as is and for the cost of a custom horizontal drilling head I can buy multiple manual machines that anyone can operate and not tie up the already stretched cnc.

    You're right on, the reason I came here was for all the people who have used the machines (such as yourself I imagine) that can say "Yep a AB5/S will do it no problem" so that I can look for one.

    I'm not opposed to any of the ideas presented here yet, but that doesn't mean I'm going to close the thread after a few hours and go buy machinery, I'd prefer to get a broader consensus in case there just happens to be the perfect machine out there for this that You or I haven't seen yet.
    There are a lot of good ideas presented here thus far. I don't honestly think any of them would be as simple and convenient as an oversize knee mill that I was originally looking for, but unless someone comes up with a better solution I'll default back to one of those ideas and get to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SONICJK View Post
    See look, you did it
    A helpful response without the condescending tone and even with a real machine in there!
    Thank you.
    Chalk it up to experience with even more stubborn mules and such in my early youth. Sometimes it takes a belly-kick or a whack with a length of firewood just to git their attention. Several "real machine" had been suggested by "several" PM members.



    Now.. we have the width and depth. How about the LENGTHS you want to run these in, also batch or continuous, how many each day/week or or year, and in which woods?

    A good starting point, average industry, is a "one year payback" from provable productivity gains / reduced scrap on whatever you have to invest.


    I would love to just use the CNC router,
    You can CNC as much of it as makes sense to do. Doesn't have to all be "store bought", there are kits, even.

    Handling the material - portal-to-portal, not just this one op - is likely to be the hardest part to automate, and ultimately the biggest share of costs as well. Not speaking of the feeding. Many feeder goods exist. Getting it to and from the drilling area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Doug? I have to beg "mercy" for the poor lad on THAT one! He is working WOOD, and present-day-market excuse for the real thing of first-growth days long gone at that!
    I know that, and you know that.

    Let's see what the OP thinks.....

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    Length is variable from 24" to 84" with 2-8 holes per board.
    Done in batches, probably 30-50/day with head room to do more if necessary.

    To clarify my thinking on the mill (so as to hopefully show you I'm not an idiot and have in fact thought this through):
    With a 90 degree clamping mechanism roughly centered on the X axis running along it's length, my guys could clamp a board in there in rough position with the center of the hole marked, and then move the x and y as necessary to center the drilling (doesn't need to be indicator accurate, just roughly in the center, better yet with a DRO zeroed on the fixture just move to the appropriate center) Drill the hole (will need to be peck drilled). Unclamp the board and slide it down to the next marked hole and repeat. No moving up and down of the knee, no moving of fixtures, just slap it in there move to suit and drill. I can't think of anything simpler other than a horizontal boring machine with multiple drill heads, but they stopped making those with a long enough stroke in the 50's. I'm watching one on an auction site with a 9" stoke that hopefully I'll get but otherwise I need a solution.

    A jig bore would work well because it allows small movements in both X and Y (I don't need a 32" table traverse)but I also need a minimum of 18" from spindle to table, preferably more like 20-24 to fit the extended length taper length drills and the work and clamping mechanism.

    Now with a drill press (non radial) I would need to build a moveable table to achieve the same operation.

    A radial would work for the Y axis movement but not (easily) for the X axis movement for small fine tuning of placement.

    Running a horizontal head on a mill drilling with the X axis could work, but when the work gets long I still need to be able to drill into the center, and it would likely run into the base of the mill with 36" hanging off each side of the table. The Y traverse is not large enough to drill long ways to this depth with a drill that length.

    So short of building a custom machine I have not yet heard an idea that I like better than running across a large mill with a large throw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SONICJK View Post
    So short of building a custom machine I have not yet heard an idea that I like better than running across a large mill with a large throw.
    The reason there is less market for MANY things not made since the 1950's IS that "building a custom machine" - ones that fit a specific application much better, anyway, had gotten so much easier. All sorts of building-block goods about, purpose-built, or adaptable. Also sensors, transport mechanisms, actuators, CNC and other controls for them.

    Another thing.. your observation on "peck" drilling. Probably, yes. But maybe not.
    There are MANY different drill solutions for wood out there in the wild, and 7 X diameter in one go is not necessarily a big deal for some of them.

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    You may be able to spin the head over so your work is at the end of the table and clears the pedistol.

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    The machine you need is a Cleerman lay out drill. (Cleereman 25 Sliding Head Drill - YouTube)
    We bought one 20 years ago for $2k.
    Cane with a DRO ,rapid powerfeeds on X & Y.It is a fixed bed machine.
    The company is Charles Allen ? Can't think of the company that owns them at the moment. Have seen them on E-Bay resonable over the years.I don't remember the stroke on ours but check tomorrow if you are interested.
    randy

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    I just looked at the complete video and ours has the same head but a fixed bed with 48" X and not sure how much Y but can check as mentioned above.
    They made all kinds of configurations with that same head.Has reversing spindle for tapping.

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    There are some like ours on old PM posts.Serch for Cleerman Layout Drill

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    ratbldr427,

    I see they also have a model with table rise and fall, "DC Box Column Cross Compound Table"

    http://www.chasgallen.com//wp-conten...ifications.pdf


    SONICJK,

    I agree a turret mill with 7" quill travel sound ideal, but as none has been found, I hope you don't mind throwing some ideas about.

    You may already know this, but - another option when drilling holes without an X-Y table are drill jigs.

    These allow any ordinary drilling machine to produce accurately spaced holes.

    For example, we used to drill holes down the 1-3 metre length of hollow box section steel.

    A length of flat mild steel, marked out carefully and drilled for drill bushes, off-the-shelf drill bushes held in place with a spot of weld, an end stop welded on, a few tabs welded down the side to locate the jig over the workpiece. Holes to be within say 0.25-0.5mm placement.

    For deluxe versions, jig welded up, then location pads milled and drill bush locations done on mill too, lugs welded on to take toggle clamps, so the work piece is pushed against the datum face of the jig and held from moving.

    For the simple location of holes centrally placed down a long length (e.g. like the OP's lengths of timber) we made small hand held U-shaped jigs, milled out of solid with a drill bush added. The U legs dropped over the workpiece and ensured the hole was always central. Positioning length wise can be done by measurement to the face of the jig. In our case the longitudinal position didn't matter, this was for drilling long lengths of plastic and aluminium extrusion on-site (only hand drills available). For larger diameters, the jig would be clamped in place.

    Just a few ideas, we made hundreds of such jigs over the years, usually made by the same guys who drilled the holes, so not the type of drill jigs seen in textbooks (but still using the same principles).

    Because most of the work was long, the main problem with drilling machines was their puny table. So we added big long tables to the machines, so long lengths could be moved under the spindle without having to support each end with stands. The tables were made from RHS, e.g. 300mm RHS with slots and holes all over for quick release clamps to hold workpieces.

    Attached photo showing one such table

    Because you are dealing with tall, narrow workpieces, I guess you have extra problems.

    .barnes-drill-201-1_4-c.1990.jpg

  16. #73
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    ratbldr427 Thanks, that's a good looking drill, I'll have a look around and see if I can't find one to look at.

    Peter,
    That's precisely how we do it now but with a hand drill with a jig setup as you describe.

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    Besides my planer suggestion which gives X-Y-Z capability or one of the BM Root machines made for the purpose, just strapping a portable drill motor to the ram on an old beat VTL would give a cheap solution with long stroke & decent daylight. You'd have to rig your own X-Y table on the horizontal chuck, though.

    Planers and VTL's can be had with side heads, so you could choose which way to orient the work, if preferred.

    smt

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    Went out to the shop to measure my Millers Falls boring machine. It'll do 8" easy, and the bit in it starts out 3" above the work. So with the right length bit, 11" is in-range. Minimal operator training, safe to operate, and can be adjusted to various angles if necessary. You can even advertise to your prospective employees that a free gym membership is included as an employee benefit.

    Here's a instructional/operational video someone else made of their machine that is the same as the one I have...

    Millers Falls Boring Machine.wmv - YouTube


    As a potentially serious aside, if the workpieces are large and cumbersome, consider attaching your drill solution to the XY table instead of the work. If you wind up with something like a long-throw column drill press, this is easily managed. If it's more like a milling machine, then not so much.

    Chip

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  20. #76
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    Dont know the exact stroke of quill on a Huron you could easily look it up but its more than your asking for it a feature that a lot of them were bought for

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    I sincerely appreciate all the input guys!
    As it happens a BM Root machine for this exact job from the early 50's just fell into my lap.
    Industrial Recovery Services - Bidders Paddle

    I've been searching for this machine for almost a year now, and as soon as I go and post here after giving up on it one popped up for auction.
    Got it for nothing too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip Chester View Post
    Went out to the shop to measure my Millers Falls boring machine. It'll do 8" easy, and the bit in it starts out 3" above the work. So with the right length bit, 11" is in-range. Minimal operator training, safe to operate, and can be adjusted to various angles if necessary. You can even advertise to your prospective employees that a free gym membership is included as an employee benefit.

    Here's a instructional/operational video someone else made of their machine that is the same as the one I have...

    Millers Falls Boring Machine.wmv - YouTube


    As a potentially serious aside, if the workpieces are large and cumbersome, consider attaching your drill solution to the XY table instead of the work. If you wind up with something like a long-throw column drill press, this is easily managed. If it's more like a milling machine, then not so much.

    Chip
    That thing is awesome!
    unfortunately I think it would cause a lot of employees to quit, and or kill me.

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    attach the rack of this type of power fed concrete boring drill to the slotting head read end of a bridgeport type turret mill.
    swing the turret around to use either end as needed.



    back there in the forgotten location where slotting attachments go..

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    I just did a quick check on the travels on our Cleerman.The X=48",Y=18",Quill stroke =10",with the head up and quill retracted 21" daylight from table to bottom of an 18N Jacobs chuck.5HP,rapids on X & Y with a DRO.

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