Vertical mill recommendations

Im looking for a knee mill for my home shop.I want something a little more sturdy than a Brigeport.We have a Rambuadi at work and it is very heavy and ridged.What are some manufacturers and models I should look into.


Thanks,Glenn

What do you want to do with the machine?

Most rigid would be a K&T or Cinci sliding head vertical, but they have their own issues.

I like my xlo

Ill throw Famco and Tree into the mix.
Both are a little more ridge than a bridgeport.

I seriously doubt there is a better turret mill made than a Cincinnati Toolmaster. NMTB 40 taper and geared power feed in at least the x axis, possibly all three if one searches hard enough.

Dale

garcher said:

Im looking for a knee mill for my home shop.I want something a little more sturdy than a Brigeport.We have a Rambuadi at work and it is very heavy and ridged.What are some manufacturers and models I should look into.


Thanks,Glenn

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Not a lot wrong with a Rambaudi. Except FINDING one, stateside especially!

Might want to see if there are any Republic-Lagun around. Basque country. Still around, last time I looked, though as with Rambaudi, more into CNC gantry, bridge, and portal mills of late, so I've NO clue what the parts situation for the older manual verticals is.

Cinncy Toolmaster tribe are generally better than BeePees, but not all are really all THAT much heavier-built, and they are pretty much orphans as to spares.

Bill

If the standard Series 1 Bridgy doesn't please you, here are some knee-turret mills that are sturdier-

Famco. Used to run a model 120 with NMTB 30 taper. Very stout. Power feeds in X and Y built in, no gearboxes or motors hanging off the end of the table or off the front of the knee. Can only tilt the head relative to X. Independent quill feed motor. Spindle on or off with push buttons, no drum switch for instant spindle reverse.

Wells-Index 747. R8 spindle, very sturdy. Very nice sweeping variable speed lever. Quiet and a pleasure to run.

Lagun FTV-2. R8 spindle. Still run one when my Bridgy is tied up with a setup that needs to stay 'til the job is finished. Solid, a little stiff by my feel (extra weight is my supposition).

Excello 602. Never ran one, my Uncle has one. Stouter than the Bridgy. His is NMTB 40.

BridgeportinD2 said:

If the standard Series 1 Bridgy doesn't please you, here are some knee-turret mills that are sturdier-

Famco. Used to run a model 120 with NMTB 30 taper. Very stout. Power feeds in X and Y built in, no gearboxes or motors hanging off the end of the table or off the front of the knee. Can only tilt the head relative to X. Independent quill feed motor. Spindle on or off with push buttons, no drum switch for instant spindle reverse.

Wells-Index 747. R8 spindle, very sturdy. Very nice sweeping variable speed lever. Quiet and a pleasure to run.

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Case one missed it, Famco mills were the commercial survivors of what had been Gorton.

Wells-Index have optional NMTB tapers. Spindle mod service, too. Nice plus is they are still in biz, and still US-made.

Bill

My fave turret mill - TOS FNK 25 or FNK 25 A (power and rapids to all axies)

40 International Taper, built like a brick out house in comparison to a BP - which they can eat for breakfast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZcDA1VwfN4

A Lagun. Or even a Prototrak knee mill, I find mine to be more sturdy than a bridgeport. And then the CNC stuff makes it cooler.

It all depends on what you want to use the machine for, how much room you have, and how much money you want to spend. I would agree that K&T and Cincinnati are the most rigid of the bunch. However you'll need a lot of room and fairly deep pockets. Tooling and repair parts aren't exactly dirt cheap.

When looking for a mill several years ago my first choice was Tree brand. I'd run one at work for 10 years and liked the profile, capacity, rigidity, and collet system. I looked for one for over 2 years with little success. Every one I found either needed substantial work or was outrageously priced. Beyond the initial price tooling was expensive and hard to find.

After 2 years of looking I stumbled across a Bridgeport Series I with the 2J2 head that was being liquidated by a local high school. They had purchased it new in 1972 and used it for about 10 years. When the CNC machines came into vogue it was pushed into storage where it sat for several more years. Finally they decided to part with it. At the time there was a glut of manual machines on the market and I was able to pick it up for an excellent price.

I've had it going on 15 years. In all that time It's performed well on every job I've used it for. It may not be as rigid as a K&T, but it's more than rigid enough for anything that will fit on the table. The nice thing is that it's versatile. The head can both lean and nod, and it has a relatively large work envelope for a machine of it's size. It can handle a wide variety of accessories and tooling, and tooling prices won't break the bank.

I've only had to do normal scheduled maintenance and very few repairs. It's been a trouble free and cost effective machine.

Since you have no budget or specifications, I'd go to somebody like Phoenix and have something custom built. Huge capacity, tons of HP and it will all fold up and fit neatly in the corner. Almost forgot, it needs to be single phase.

The above being said, WTF is wrong with a Bridgeport for a home shop. What your you making that you need that much rigidity?
JR

I want something with a #40 spindle taper.Will be cutting some 3/4 " keyways in 316 SS.Thought a little bit more ridgity would be nice. Thanks Glenn

JRIowa said:

Since you have no budget or specifications, I'd go to somebody like Phoenix and have something custom built. Huge capacity, tons of HP and it will all fold up and fit neatly in the corner. Almost forgot, it needs to be single phase.

The above being said, WTF is wrong with a Bridgeport for a home shop. What your you making that you need that much rigidity?
JR

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It has an R8 spindle, that's what's wrong with a B/port. Also only power feed on X. Yeah I know, people have added power feeds to the other axes.

I have 3 mills including the B/port, the other 2 are 40 taper, a Deckel type toolroom mill with all angle table and a Victoria U2 universal horizontal with 2 vertical heads plus a spare B/port head if I can be bothered fitting it. The B/port used to be my first stop but I'm finding it's becoming my last choice.

If I could only have one mill and I needed more capacity than the toolroom mill, I'd probably pick the B/port. Otherwise, no. I'm probably going to sell mine.

PDW

garcher said:

I want something with a #40 spindle taper.Will be cutting some 3/4 " keyways in 316 SS.Thought a little bit more ridgity would be nice. Thanks Glenn

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I don't disagree.

So long as "some" is a large enough number to justify a whole different mill.

Is it, really?

If so, most of the 'usual suspects' have been recommended arredy.

Personally, not having to push all that hard anyway, I like my 40-taper (two spindles) over my B&S #9 (also two spindles) even more for a different set of reasons.

Easier tool changes. Greater choice of tooling. Near-as-dammit at the same cost as R8 - or LESS than B&S.

Otherwise, is this the start of a saga akin to the Old Woman who swallowed a fly?

http://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/songs/oldwoman.html

'coz you'll start with more power wanted, segue into a raft of new tooling, and then..

How good is your slotter? Should your shaper be swapped for a planer? How rigid is your lathe? How about the drillpress? .. shop floor thick enough for the new hor-bor?



Bill

Was told by a very reliable contact that the Chevalier bridgeport style machine is considerably more stable than the original. Can be found with 30 or 40 taper spindles too. Very similar size to a Bridgeport so smaller than a TOS or Beaver. Proper gearbox power feeds both ways too. Unfortuantely I was asking in adviser mode for a acquaintance who promptly bought the thing and is very happy with it.

Probably zilch chance of finding one but the proper sliding head Victoria / Elliot verticals are very rigid. Still have rotation but no nodding movements. Unfortunately shop floor grade rather than toolroom accuracy machines so likely to have been worked hard. Limited speed range and plenty of gear to rattle too. Excellent demo as to why a round quill, drilling machine style, is a stupid way to make a mill when proper dovetail slideways are so much stiffer and probably not harder if the factory is set-up for that type of work.

Clive

I picked up a tree 2uvr for 1200 bucks off of craigslist. came with a Bridgeport vice and a full set of colletts. I love it.

benchracer1 said:

I picked up a tree 2uvr for 1200 bucks off of craigslist.

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He wants something MORE rigid than a Bridgeport.

garcher said:

Will be cutting some 3/4 " keyways in 316 SS

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Just don't use a collet to hold that 3/4 endmill. If fact, if I was doing it, I wouldn't use a 3/4 endmill, it would be 1/2" cobalt. Less than half the price of a 3/4".
JR

Am

swellwelder said:

I seriously doubt there is a better turret mill made than a Cincinnati Toolmaster. NMTB 40 taper and geared power feed in at least the x axis, possibly all three if one searches hard enough.

Dale

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Amen!! The ToolMaster is what the Bridgeport should have been. It has twice the spindle rigidity by actual measurement than a BP with an R8 spindle. The worst feature on a Bridgeport or any other turret mill is the R8 spindle. Limber, no positive drive feature, weak feed mechanism. Otherwise the Bridgeport and its better clones is an excellent well balanced design offering a lot of bang for the buck.. It's unfair to expect major metal removal, jig borer accuracy, or large work envelope from a turret mill. It's designed for a niche and within that niche a turret mill if very hard to beat for the money/.

Affordable ToolMasters in usable condition are rare as frog fur, the perfect woman, or truth in politics. Beside they've been out of production for a generation. ToolMasters now on the market are likely to be well used. Caveat emptor.

You want a BP but more rigid? I suggest a Lagun turret mill if you can find the older model with an honest #40 spindle. It's almost a ToolMaster.or a BP series ii. Nice machine. Brutally stout for a turret mill.

You won't be able to cut a 3/4" keyseat in stainless in a single pass in a well tooled Lagun. Few mills have the structural rigidity for this simple seeming task. I've been cutting keyseats in shafts of all descriptions from instrumentation to ship's propeller shafts and my preferred method is three pass. The single pass method results in a keyseat offset by the cutter/machine deflection.

Not to disparage the Bridgeport turret mill. I own an exact to the part number clone if a Bridgeport Series I. and it's served me well for 34 years. While my Bridgeport clone won't compete with a 20 Hp, vertical milling machine equipped with a #50 spindle and weighing 12,000 lb, my little machine will still performs precision work and will even remove many pounds of material given time for multiple cuts. If I had to cut a 3/4" keyseat in 300 series stainless shaft it would take me six cuts with a 1/2" end mill. The keyseat would be accurately located and the key would be a tap fit. The customer would be happy and hand me $45 as money well spent..