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Visited a 1970’s sheetmetal and fab shop yesterday

motion guru

Diamond
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Location
Yacolt, WA
We are having a number of stair cases fabricated for our new building. The office stairs need to be closed riser units with all the code and ADA design requirements . . . and along with the stairs in the shop, they all need stamped shop drawings to meet the city building codes. Not something in our wheelhouse so the contractor went to his “go to” guy to get these done.

This week the contractor emailed me scans of approval drawings and calcs. They were scans of hand drawn designs and hand calcs. I noted a few things with the railings that we wanted done differently and I marked them up in Adobe Acrobat and called the name of the company in the title block and asked if I could e-mail the prints back to them so we could discuss.

The guy said . . . “What is e-mail?” and before I could answer he says “you got a car?” and I said yes of course, then he says “get in your car and drive over here and talk to me”. So I hop in my truck and head over.

I drive up to an old building and go into a shop that put me back to when I was a teenager working in Ballard Washington . . . old press brakes, an oxy-gas torch set that looked like the one I had when in my early 20’s, dark, cramped, and an organized and neat but dirty shop. I head into the office and first thing I note is a shelf full of cigar boxes, a large drafting table, and piles of drawings and catalogs stacked around. No computer in sight and lots of awards on the walls from local contractors and schools districts for fabricated bleachers, stairs, railings, etc.

He looks at my requests and agrees and then I ask him about his business. Started in 1971 and still at it. Doesn’t like all the new fangled technology and the youth today are worthless and don’t know how to work. He is worried that all the contractors that feed him business are starting to retire. (The contractor that is building my facility is in his 70’s) . . . looks like he does great work, only has a couple employees. I wonder how many companies like this will survive as the baby boomers retire in droves in the coming years.
 
Sometimes I question the need for having so much technology.(for certain types of work) Less is more type of thing. I am starting to think that in 20 - 30 years when I am to old to work all my equipment will just be scrap since the millenials can not do anything not involving thumb typing. Maybe on the next wave the pendulum will swing back?
 
I consider a manufacturing infrastructure to be a national security requirement. At some point, handing off such work to China or other "low cost" economies will bite us in the ass, in both readiness and future technology not invented here. Will anyone in Washington or state governments notice, or care? Not counting on it...

As for us older farts, well, at least there's a chance we can still get hired, even with gray hair. If the young'uns won't (or can't) work, we still can.
 
Our tumble drier died the other day after 15 plus years. I was looking at one on the internet that you can control with your iPhone. Now if the iPhone could actually put the clothes into the drier and then take them out again when they were dry that would be a gimmick worth having.

My central heating boiler already works from your iPhone, if you can figure it out that is. I had to get my computer expert pal in to show me how to set the times !

Regards Tyrone.
 
Our tumble drier died the other day after 15 plus years. I was looking at one on the internet that you can control with your iPhone. Now if the iPhone could actually put the clothes into the drier and then take them out again when they were dry that would be a gimmick worth having.

My central heating boiler already works from your iPhone, if you can figure it out that is. I had to get my computer expert pal in to show me how to set the times !

Regards Tyrone.

Open the pod bay doors HAL...
 
I consider a manufacturing infrastructure to be a national security requirement. At some point, handing off such work to China or other "low cost" economies will bite us in the ass, in both readiness and future technology not invented here. Will anyone in Washington or state governments notice, or care? Not counting on it...

As for us older farts, well, at least there's a chance we can still get hired, even with gray hair. If the young'uns won't (or can't) work, we still can.

Yes, the ass-biting started a while back, but it's more like a Gila monster than a rattlesnake bite, takes a long time, leaves the wound dirty and infected, and almost impossible to get the jaws loose without losing a lot of the body part. As you note, the elders will know how to work and get stuff done, but if the young'uns are all IN CHARGE, they likely won't even recognize that stuff NEEDS to, and can be, done here in the USA until too late.
 
We are having a number of stair cases fabricated for our new building. The office stairs need to be closed riser units with all the code and ADA design requirements . . . and along with the stairs in the shop, they all need stamped shop drawings to meet the city building codes. Not something in our wheelhouse so the contractor went to his “go to” guy to get these done.

This week the contractor emailed me scans of approval drawings and calcs. They were scans of hand drawn designs and hand calcs. I noted a few things with the railings that we wanted done differently and I marked them up in Adobe Acrobat and called the name of the company in the title block and asked if I could e-mail the prints back to them so we could discuss.

The guy said . . . “What is e-mail?” and before I could answer he says “you got a car?” and I said yes of course, then he says “get in your car and drive over here and talk to me”. So I hop in my truck and head over.

I drive up to an old building and go into a shop that put me back to when I was a teenager working in Ballard Washington . . . old press brakes, an oxy-gas torch set that looked like the one I had when in my early 20’s, dark, cramped, and an organized and neat but dirty shop. I head into the office and first thing I note is a shelf full of cigar boxes, a large drafting table, and piles of drawings and catalogs stacked around. No computer in sight and lots of awards on the walls from local contractors and schools districts for fabricated bleachers, stairs, railings, etc.

He looks at my requests and agrees and then I ask him about his business. Started in 1971 and still at it. Doesn’t like all the new fangled technology and the youth today are worthless and don’t know how to work. He is worried that all the contractors that feed him business are starting to retire. (The contractor that is building my facility is in his 70’s) . . . looks like he does great work, only has a couple employees. I wonder how many companies like this will survive as the baby boomers retire in droves in the coming years.

Traditionally, the construction industry has been rather backward in its adoption of new technology so hearing a story such as yours comes as no surprise.

Your story also brings up an excellent point about technology in business and the work place.

I do love technology and make my livelihood from it but I do question many times what are we really gaining.

The business owner in your story is probably very successful for a variety of reasons but the business will also probably die when he does as he is the brains and information holder unless one of his employees has the motivation and mental capacity to absorb the essence of the business.

From a financial viewpoint, I would venture to guess that he has substantial cash in the bank and not too many worries over if he has another project tomorrow.

Add to this that he probably has an adequate amount of real private free time to enjoy life.

While you had to drive over to his business, he probably saved you and him several hours of wasted time passing back and forth emails in attempts to clarify issues that were dealt with in a short office one on one discussion. It is also very likely that you will get exactly what you wanted on delivery.

As to you question of how many of these type of companies will survive as the boomers retire, almost none. Technology is a double edged sword. Wonderful for enabling us to do more albeit at a substantial hidden cost and not just monetarily. We are about to see what the real hidden costs are that we have been accruing plus interest.

Construction by its very nature is a one off project so experience and intuitive knowledge are key to project success. There is a substantial difference between doing a project and doing a project successfully. History is littered with project failures due to ignoring past experience.

Here is a rather humorous video
Hilarious video show 17 year old teenagers baffled by rotary phone - YouTube

A couple of 17yr olds trying to figure out how to use a dial phone.

Sort of exemplifies the knowledge gap between present technology skills of today vs. the knowledge skill set from 30yrs. ago.
 
Traditionally, the construction industry has been rather backward in its adoption of new technology so hearing a story such as yours comes as no surprise.

Your story also brings up an excellent point about technology in business and the work place.

I do love technology and make my livelihood from it but I do question many times what are we really gaining.

The business owner in your story is probably very successful for a variety of reasons but the business will also probably die when he does as he is the brains and information holder unless one of his employees has the motivation and mental capacity to absorb the essence of the business.

From a financial viewpoint, I would venture to guess that he has substantial cash in the bank and not too many worries over if he has another project tomorrow.

Add to this that he probably has an adequate amount of real private free time to enjoy life.

While you had to drive over to his business, he probably saved you and him several hours of wasted time passing back and forth emails in attempts to clarify issues that were dealt with in a short office one on one discussion. It is also very likely that you will get exactly what you wanted on delivery.

As to you question of how many of these type of companies will survive as the boomers retire, almost none. Technology is a double edged sword. Wonderful for enabling us to do more albeit at a substantial hidden cost and not just monetarily. We are about to see what the real hidden costs are that we have been accruing plus interest.

Construction by its very nature is a one off project so experience and intuitive knowledge are key to project success. There is a substantial difference between doing a project and doing a project successfully. History is littered with project failures due to ignoring past experience.

Here is a rather humorous video
Hilarious video show 17 year old teenagers baffled by rotary phone - YouTube

A couple of 17yr olds trying to figure out how to use a dial phone.

Sort of exemplifies the knowledge gap between present technology skills of today vs. the knowledge skill set from 30yrs. ago.

I was watching a kid doing some turning a while ago. He was facing up a piece of mild steel bar about 8" in dia. The kid didn't know much about tool geometry and the surface finish was crap

I said to him " You've got a finish like an LP there son ".

He replied " What's an LP ? "

Regards Tyrone.
 
I have to get my right side shoes built up due to a long ago mc crash.
Whenever I have moved I have had to find someone reliable that does a good job.

The currant place I've used for 40 years.I haven't noticed a typewriter in the place.
Whenever I go there after I give my name and the clerk goes over to a card file cabinet that most likely has every customer on file since they opened 60-70 years ago.Every thing hand written.

Last time I was there I asked if that hard drive had ever crashed! "Not that I recall and I've been been here 20 years"
 
I consider a manufacturing infrastructure to be a national security requirement. At some point, handing off such work to China or other "low cost" economies will bite us in the ass, in both readiness and future technology not invented here. Will anyone in Washington or state governments notice, or care? Not counting on it...

As for us older farts, well, at least there's a chance we can still get hired, even with gray hair. If the young'uns won't (or can't) work, we still can.

Speaking as a fellow older fart, I'm glad I'm closer to the finish line than the starting line.
,
 
I was watching a kid doing some turning a while ago. He was facing up a piece of mild steel bar about 8" in dia. The kid didn't know much about tool geometry and the surface finish was crap

I said to him " You've got a finish like an LP there son ".

He replied " What's an LP ? "

Regards Tyrone.

LP? You mean those big black CDs? We don't even use the smaller CDs any more....
 
And why should he care when this happens?
What motivation is there to jump through hoops to join the "new world"?
Bob

That's a rather Nihilistic view of things. We are the products of generations who have benefited from the learnings of others, their success and failures. We, as a society, need to educate our young, train them to do what must be done for their opportunities for success, then hope the lessons take.

If we all take the "I've got mine, Jack" attitude, and don't pass on what we know, then we've failed to uphold the "agreement" handed from generation to generation.

Yes, I know this conflicts a bit with what I said earlier - while I'd like to think that my skills give me some security, I don't want to horde them and have them die with me. It's one of the reasons I teach at a student shop on Sundays.
 
Our tumble drier died the other day after 15 plus years. I was looking at one on the internet that you can control with your iPhone. Now if the iPhone could actually put the clothes into the drier and then take them out again when they were dry that would be a gimmick worth having.

My central heating boiler already works from your iPhone, if you can figure it out that is. I had to get my computer expert pal in to show me how to set the times !

Regards Tyrone.

They quit making proper washer/dryers around 1960 such as the Bendix Dupmatic. Throw in the dirty clothes and come back in a few hours to clean dry clothes. I was shocked to find the big expensive washer dryer units that came around about 10 years ago are still separate units. They do make small washer/dryers but they are condensing dryers and do not really dry the clothes. they just sort of remove most of the dampness.
Bil lD.
 
I love these time capsules. There's a safemaker in these parts thats been in business since at least the 40s. The founder dabbled in buying and selling precision machines as well, thus my stumbling into them 15 years ago. 3 story building with basement, the son of the founder running it now, 70ish, 6'6 hands like catcher's mitts, lets a fellow like me run around up and down in the cargo elevator hunting for remains of the old machinery business. Pinups from 70s Playboys around, pumice soap in the john.

Found a really weird (never seen one before or since) Schaublin 102 microscope mount there once, asked what he wanted, he asked what it was, told him, he said thanks and gave it to me.

They do have a website and computers but the office looks like a paper war and they seem to like their Friday afternoon booze.

They're also the primary supplier of class A safes in the country from what I understand.
 
There used to be a tool grinding shop here in town that sharpened about every tool in a 50 mile radius. An old guy ran it out of a rented shop behind a big welding shop. I think he had a phone, but that's it. He used to grind a lot of cutters for Caterpillar and they insisted that he get a fax machine so they could fax drawings and invoices. He more or less told them to shove it.

Eventually they worked out some kind of deal where Cat could fax their stuff to the welding shop and the receptionist (remember those?) would run them over to the grind shop.


At home there's a small machine shop/welding shop that's about the same as described in the OP. The place is incredible. It's a horrible mess but he has everything. One time I stopped in looking for some 1-7/16 shaft stock. He rummaged around and found some in just a few seconds.

Another time I had an air conditioning junction block out of the sleeper on a Volvo semi truck that had cracked. It was a thin aluminum tube, maybe .030" wall pressed into a much larger aluminum block, maybe some kind of extrusion. It had cracked right where the tube met the block. I asked him if he could weld it. He looks at it for a second and says "let's find out". He heated the block up a bit with a torch and then fired up a 40+ year old Airco TIG welder. He zipped around that tube and welded it up like it came out of a robot cell. He hands it back to me and says "I guess I could".

The place is a time capsule. All hand written receipts. His "office" is a tiny room about the size of a large phone booth, but it's stacked floor to ceiling with paper catalogs. I have no idea when a human last set foot in that room.
 
And why should he care when this happens?
What motivation is there to jump through hoops to join the "new world"?
Bob

My comment was in response to Motion's comment about how many of these types of businesses will survive beyond the present owner.

As for joining the "New World", that was actually part of my point. What is considered success often is only permanent enslavement to the latest technology.

There is nothing wrong with pursuing a business model that ends when the owner retires or dies as long is it is part of the business plan. Just a matter of the goals of the owner.
 
Thats a terrible outcome to have a business die once the owner dies, all that effort is lost and no continuity of supply.
Could be a loss of technology/ skills as well depending on industry.
A nice fluid transition to the new generation i would think is best although not always possible in every case but should be aimed for gives employment and satisfies a need of the community.
That guy just meets the needs of Motion guru it could be anyone doing the same thing as motion in a few years time and that guy if he's around will meet their needs.

The resources expended on building infrastructure is significant i would think motion guru would know the building will be around longer than he will be it would be sad to see if it is left to ruin once he is gone.
 








 
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