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Voest lathe self levelling?

jlakes85

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 10, 2011
Location
Northern NJ
My Voest has 2 centered levelling pads under the tailstock end, 1 centered levelling pad at the Chuck end of the headstock and 2 levelling pads at the edges of the width of the headstock on the free end of the spindle. would this be considered a self levelling setup?
 
My Voest has 2 centered levelling pads under the tailstock end, 1 centered levelling pad at the Chuck end of the headstock and 2 levelling pads at the edges of the width of the headstock on the free end of the spindle. would this be considered a self levelling setup?

Kind of hard to visualize the pad layout. It sounds like you could draw a single "T" through that would iintersect all of them. Is that true?

Denis
 
There's a triangle of 3 pads under the headstock end: 2 under the free end of the spindle and one under the Chuck end of the spindle. The other 2 pads under the tailstock end are in-line with the pad under the chuck
 
So you could draw a "T" through them all it sounds like. In that case, it would not be possible to apply torque to the lathe as is commonly done for lathes that require "leveling." My monarch EE is setup for only 3 weight bearing pads. I guess you could say it is self-leveling, but it really does not require and would not benefit from meticulous leveling. Its lathe bed and base are a single robust casting that strongly resists twist. Images of the smaller and medium Voests look like they were designed to not be twisted by floor mounts either.

Leveling of lathes and milling machines has been much discussed here in the past, sometimes with rather vigorous (and needlessly unpleasant) disagreement concerning its necessity and utility. In fact, I would venture to say more PMers have been bent out of shape over this issue than lathes lathes straightened! :)

Denis
 
." My monarch EE is setup for only 3 weight bearing pads. Its lathe bed and base are a single robust casting that strongly resists twist.

Denis


Not exactly...on the EE the bed is a separate casting from the base and they are bolted together...not a single piece...Not out of the question for the factory to fit shims between the two as a means
of getting the bed fit with little or no stress/twist....Think some scraping was utilized at the fit up as well.

Cheers Ross
 
Not exactly...on the EE the bed is a separate casting from the base and they are bolted together...not a single piece...Not out of the question for the factory to fit shims between the two as a means
of getting the bed fit with little or no stress/twist....Think some scraping was utilized at the fit up as well.

Cheers Ross

I'll have to take your word on the two parts. Mine has so many previously applied coats of paint that a part line is certainly not visible. Regardless, it is of a three-point design not intended to be twisted and so solid that twisting it would be challenging.

Denis
 
I bought my Voest DA210 new in 1971. It's given me excellent service as being fast, accurate, and trouble free. For a time I powered it with a 10 HP motor taking full load cuts with no difficulty with spindle transmission capacity or limitation with feed thrust. I reverted to the standard motor after the need for raw stock removal had passed with he job. My only complaint was the dinky tailstock handwheel was an actual pain in my wrists when feeding large drills.

The Voest DA series lathe is a fine machine tool but it is level sensitive if in good condition. Yes you can use the three points you describe for a preliminary level so in that respect the lathe would be "self aligning." But you can't stop there.

The leveling instructions on my installation manual are sketchy starting with a description of a concrete foundation and attachment bolts then going on to state the machine be first leveled by 4 wedges not stating precisely where they are to be inserted; presumably one on each side of the machine's two pedestals. Finally it states the machine is to be attached to the foundation by the bolts, adjusting the wedges to refine the leveling followed by grouting. Barely a third of a page with no illustrations. Inadequate to my way of thinking.

I found these manual instructions unsatisfactory in my situation so working from first principles I evolved my own leveling procedure. I've moved my lathe a half dozen times over the years and had I mounted it on a foundation each time, the cost would have been prohibitive. My shop floor is somewhat thin but well supported by the subsoil. Therefore I've leveled it with shims on machined plates at each corner of each pedestal - no grout - and resigned myself to checking for level and alignment annually. We had an earthquake about 15 years ago that jolted my lathe ejecting one plate from under the back inside corner of the tailstock pedestal. The carriage was hard to crank until I'd completely re-leveled and aligned the lathe.

I suggest you either make compact leveling jacks or mount the machine on fitted plates and level your lathe carefully lengthwise and thwartships. Run a two collar test to ensure the headstock axis is parallel to the bed in the vertical plane .

If you have a test bar use that but check it for TIR at the tailstock end. A Starrett 199 10 arc second master precision level or equivalent or one of those low cost 1/20,000 import precision levels (a pretty good tool provided you make yourself familiar with its quirks) is minimum equipment for leveling a Voest DA series lathe. Two levels are much handier...

Shop wisely:

master precision level | eBay
 
Interesting, Forrest. Looks like there are two flavors of 210. One has a narrow pedestal at the tailstock end with pads on the spindle axis ( like I think the OP is describing) and one with a tailstock pedestal as wide as the spindle or headstock end and with pads at the edges of the base on both. Which do you have? Looks like the broad pedestal would lend itself to twist far better than the narrow one not withstanding the fact that everything is made of rubber. Here is a pic of the narrow one:

1 Voest Center Lathe, Max. 15 U/min, DA 21 - Machine Tools - Second hand machinery - Wotol.com

Denis
 
Not exactly...on the EE the bed is a separate casting from the base and they are bolted together...not a single piece...
Sorry, Ros... Not true.

The bed and the base are all one casting. No bolts involved.

The headstock is bolted to the base which is also the left end of the bed.

- Leigh
 
Voest is one of those German diphthongs I can never get right. I haven't a clue what the diaeresis (the two little dots over the "o") does nor can I distort me speaking apparatus to get the correct sounds. I've sung enough German and butchered it to be completely intimidated by correctly pronouncing "Voest." I usually chump and pronounce "Vohst" but as I understand it should be "Veust' with a hint of "r" in it. Maybe a native German speaker will assist.

Denis, mine is like the picture in your link. The DA 210 has had a model change. Mine is the squared off version made from the late "60's. The earlier model had more rounded castings for head and tailstock. Both had fabricated steel pedestals.

Look at the images if you're curious:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/voest/

Import levels expanded

The quirks I was referring to is the glass vial is lapped so the center where the bubble rests is barrel shaped to a specific radius. This has to be tested at several small angles during the lapping process on a sine bar.to ensure the radius is correct and uniform. Cheap levels may not register slope angles accurately or even uniformly over its range.

Buy a good 10 arc second level and you can put it to work immediately, confident of the accuracy of its graduations. Apply it on a job, note the reading, work a little ratio and proportion, make a calculated adjustment and your correction will be accurate to small percents.

A cheap level requires immediate receipt inspection and calibration as to the accuracy of its graduation. The procedure is simple and requires only a set of cheap Jo blocks and a smooth machine table whose "strike" ( a perpendicular to a slope, that, is a level line) is known and marked with a Sharpie or blocked with a heavy parallel.

The level is set on the line and adjusted by the reversal process so the bubble is accurately centered. The graduations are checked by selecting stacks of Jo blocks corresponding to successive multiples of the arc second graduations, setting the level on the line you marked with the blocks tacks at the very ends of the level and testing the level with them - again by the reversal process.

Example: a 15" level frame and a 10 arc second vial. 10 arc seconds on 10" is 0.000485.". First graduation on a 15" level requires 0.000727" difference in block height, second 0.001454" (calculated values, naturally you should round to some practical value) and so on. In a perfect level the graduations on the vial will track the calculated block height. Import levels may not due to errors of the barrel shape. If you wish to use your import level for accurate determinations, you might make up a correction card.noting the actual slope indicated by each graduation.

The barrel shape in the vial may not be a perfect circle. It may be shaped more like a pear than an apple. Therefore your correction card may not show symmetrical readings and you will have to mark your level which end is which.

That is if you use your level to accurately measure small slopes for some reason and need accurate calibration of each graduation. Us simpler folk require only a level that registers 0.0005" slope in 10" predictably enough for us to level and align our machine tools. Proceed according to your requirements and enthusiasms..

Be careful of body heat from your hands as you handle the level. Accuracy is en elusive target if heat input to the apparatus is uncontrolled.
 
My Harrison m300 lathe 13X40 is not supposed to be unbolted from the bed. It is shimmed and putty applied at the factory. Base is about 1/4" plate bent and welded up. If it is removed for say painting you have to keep track of shims and be careful to get it right.
Bill D.
 
To say ö try saying the clean German o Sound while tightening up your lips.

Gesendet von meinem XT1585 mit Tapatalk
 
And if you scroll down to post 14 here: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/10ee-base-swap-can-done-228028/ you'll see photographs of the 10EE base and bed as separate castings.

David


Not exactly...on the EE the bed is a separate casting from the base and they are bolted together...not a single piece...Not out of the question for the factory to fit shims between the two as a means
of getting the bed fit with little or no stress/twist....Think some scraping was utilized at the fit up as well.

Cheers Ross
 
I have the later version as well. The single bolt hole under the Chuck is in line with the two under the headstock. Also there are two more on the headatock end on either side
 








 
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