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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    Nothing wrong with that, unless at the end of the night you walk away from the fern thinking "What a prick"....

    Ha ha

    MOST nights yes..

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    In my business when a customer talks about my 'passion' for the work i think it really means they are hoping I'll be cheap because i love the work so much and want to give back or something, like the myth of the kind old wise tinkerer.
    I also remember a customer once that was insistent that i must be doing some other kind of work to support myself. That is insulting.

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  4. #23
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    I find most people genuinely think my shop is pretty cool, but they have absolutely no clue. I have a bit of a warped sense of humor and I really don't give a shit what people think. Most people gravitate towards my 300 ton stamping press after they scan the area for a few minutes. They ask what it is and I usually tell them it's a tortilla maker. Not surprisingly most folks don't question that answer at all.

    If I'm being generous I think about 2% of the population carries the rest.

    You guys ever get a dad in your shop with a kid and the dad starts feeding his kid loads of bullshit about what the machines are and what they do? That is just about the saddest thing.

  5. #24
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    I'm not sure what upset you...was it that his comment was that you were working on a Saturday or?

    But what really caught my eye is your opening statement that you spent an hour talking to him earlier. An hour? As in 60 minutes? I don't give anyone an hour of my attention unless they rate...they'd better be a good friend or a customer. And I define 'customer' as someone who is, or is probable, to buy something.

    I have a friend who would spend 15, 25, 45 minutes talking to every warm body that walked in the door. Everyone in town knew him and liked him. Of course, he was/is broke cuz he got nothing done and I don't see any of those warm bodies lined up to pay his bills or drop off a free car. I used to call them "piranhas" - none of them took a bite bite but they all took a little bite until his time was all gone.

  6. #25
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    I get it from my own family. They're a bunch of snobs who think you have to be a doctor, lawyer, or college professor or you've 'wasted your life'. I was always looked down on as a blue-collar grunt. I actually spent my career designing and building complex, very tight tolerance plastic injection molds. Believe it or not, you don't walk out of trade school on Day One being able to do that. I love working with my hands; I hate working in an office. I was lucky enough to have a career that I truly loved. F'em.

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  8. #26
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    I have had the honor and pleasure of working with some brilliant minds. ADHD, OCD are common traits among them in various degrees. When managed they are superpowers. I have made some great friendships that make me smarter. Some were uptight snobs that I made it possible for their experiment to actually work by completely rethink/rebuild it and never so much as got a thank you, they are not on my friends list. I also have friends that are as simple as plain toast, they think I'm a genius. Some get it, others don't, I don't take it personally.

    I do enjoy meeting someone new who is formally educated and engage in a conversation that enlightens them. I try to lead with the question, "what is your passion or profession?" It often leads to something I can connect with them. Like the high school math teacher [she had a masters degree] struggling with real world algebra examples to engage her students. We talked of ratios and geometry. With a pocket tape measure I always carry I explained the rise/run equation of a stair tread next to us.

    She had no idea there was such a thing. I explained how it directly relates to the Rise/Run of the slope of a line y=mx+b. Our talk went on to surface speed and even brief touch on trigonometry and the simplicity of the 3:4:5 ratio of a right triangle and with that same tape measure could show her that the corner of a table was indeed ninety degrees within some tolerance.

    Toward the end of the conversation, getting late and she had to leave. She asked me if I was a math teacher or engineer. No, I said I am a machinist. I was a terrible math student because to this day I cannot recite my times tables, cannot do but the simplest math in my head. It's not for a lack of trying, it simply is not in my neural pathways. See that refrigerator over there, in my minds eye is an X-Ray image and can explain how it works mechanically and the basic physics of latent heat of evaporation. I can even draw details of each and every component from memory. But if you ask me what 3x9=?? it's going to take a moment with pencil and paper. That's why I was a 'poor' math student, I would only get three or four answers done, they would be correct but the number of blanks dropped me to a D or F, the teachers assumed I was an idiot and I simply stopped trying. Now after having been in the real world using applied mathematics; ask me how I can find the surface speed of a 1.25" face mill at 3,000 rpm and I will snap back instantly; Diameter times RPM divided by three point eight two then reach in my pocket for my cell phones calculator that I was told would never have.. and there is your answer. And the gOOgle, all the worlds library in your pocket. I asked her if she might have students like me who just don't get algebra. Yes, quite a lot of them. I told her to teach without the numbers. She looked puzzled. Explain to them it is a game. The order of operations and properties of addition, subtraction and multiplication are the rules. Start with simply a+b=c,something plus something else equals something completely different.

    That really tripped her breaker but she was interested. I explained it is in part rote memorization but only of the rules. Work with them thru all the concepts with just letters, sure there are powers and squaring. Then add simple numbers, squares and threes. That is how the teacher I had in an adult college level course I took did it in the first two semesters and the entire class of 'underachievers' got it, finally clicked for us and we were off and running. I got a D the first semester and all A's the next three. I'm not the speed calculator some friends of mine are but I "get it". She thanked me and said she would try my suggestions. I even got a hug goodby.

    So when they don't get you, just remember what Mr. Rogers said: "You are you, just the way you are."
    OR what a more cynical friend says; "Fu** 'em and feed them fish!"

  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    Skin too thin..?
    yeah, i don't think being told you're passionate about it is either an insult or dime store psychology. It's conceivable that If he had a better sense of communication it might have come out as "I admire how much care you put into things"

    My wife's work has a policy of "presume goodwill". Not always easy to do, but I think there is wisdom in it. It doesn't mean be naive but when there is no information to suggest malice and its just guesswork, try and assume there was goodwill. The compelling logic is if you do the opposite and assume the worst, its only you that is negatively impacted. Kind of like being mad at traffic.

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    Nothing wrong with that, unless at the end of the night you walk away from the fern thinking "What a prick"....

    Hmmm. I was just thinking - two ways to look at this. Even worse if at the end of a night being forced to be next to you the fern is thinking "What a prick".
    Last edited by bosleyjr; 02-16-2020 at 09:19 PM.

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcgyver View Post
    yeah, i don't think being told you're passionate about it is either an insult or dime store psychology. It's conceivable that If he had a better sense of communication it might have come out as "I admire how much care you put into things"
    That was my first thought also, not having heard or seen the observer's tone or body language. He might be seeing you as one would see an artist - passionate and committed.

    My wife's work has a policy of "presume goodwill". Not always easy to do, but I think there is wisdom in it. It doesn't mean be naive but when there is no information to suggest malice and its just guesswork, try and assume there was goodwill. The compelling logic is if you do the opposite and assume the worst, its only you that is negatively impacted. Kind of like being mad at traffic.
    I say the same thing in less PC terms, I forget where I picked it up. "Never attribute to malice that which can be equally well attributed to stupidity, because stupidity is much more prevalent". I try to assume that everyone is doing the best that they can within the limits they have.

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  15. #30
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    This.......

    climb-tree.jpg

  16. #31
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    "I do but it seems like most start looking around to borrow tools they need"

    When I was about 20, I worked at a factory, in the office section. One of the older guys in the department - probably 50 and making 3X what I did - approached me one day and asked if I had a special socket he needed. He knew I 'had tools'. It turns out he needed a Torx 50 (male). His seatbelt mechanism in his ford truck had broken and he couldn't pass state inspection. He had gone to the junkyard and bought a used mechanism. He had first gone to the dealer and the thieves there wanted $18 for a new one. He was stuck, though, and the bolt was a Torx head and he couldn't do the job without the socket.

    Back then, Torx were pretty uncommon and I didn't have any. Sorry. He moaned and whined - he 'could' buy one but he knew if he did, he would never need it again and he sure didn't want to spend the money. He had gone the auto parts store and they wanted - sit down - $3.84 for a socket. I gave this some thought and realized it was worth $3.84 to get him to shut his ass. So i told him to go ahead and buy it, use it, then sell the used socket to me for $3.84. He was practically elated. So that's what he did. I made sure the next day, when he presented me with the socket, to hand him over exactly $3.84 with the same care and ceremony as if it were an artificial heart.

    To this day, I have the socket and every time I see it, I think "What a dick that guy was...."

    dick-socket.jpg

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  18. #32
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    In a class full of kids that got algebra, I was the idiot that just could not get it, I think the teacher actually enjoyed calling on me to see me fail. One day the teacher switched to geometry and it was childs play in my mind, first test the teacher was flabbergasted that I was the only student to answer every question correctly. He flat out accused me of cheating then called me up to chalk board to do equations which I breezed thru, he sat there with a look of disbelief

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  20. #33
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    I'm the same way- never got algebra, but breezed through geometry and trig. I got good grades in just about everything but algebra. Mom always said I wasn't living up to my potential. Yes, I did. I was an excellent tool maker.

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  22. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    I used to call them "piranhas" - none of them took a bite bite but they all took a little bite until his time was all gone.

    I tell people it is like getting nibbled to death by ducks.

    Ed.

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  24. #35
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    As one guy I used to work with would say 'everybody has a place, but with some it is harder to find the right place'. We all have different gifts.

    I figured out by the third day of our marriage (will be 50 years in July) that I better ask which pants/shirt/sweater went together because it was easier than getting dressed twice. I just do not get it when it comes to matching clothes. So during my working life the combinations that were correct always hung as assemblies. My wife is very artistic and a phenomenal seamstress/needlework/etc.

    Friction has developed at times. When I was drawing up the prints for our house I had to have done the windows on the elevations a few dozen times, in order to get the look she wanted. Not complaining - just to me there was no big difference, varying window sizes by 3 inch increments - this was before CAD. End product turned out fine. Later, built an external garage and I drew up what the cupolas on top would look like. She has a terrible time judging from a print - so I had to make a cardboard mock up and take it up on the roof. Yet she can modify a dress pattern (or no pattern) on the fly and it comes out perfect. She did a major rework of her wedding dress the night before we got married. I can totally visualize in three dimensions any print and for the life of me I will never understand how she does the pattern trick yet cannot visualize a drawing. Jokingly I tell her she should have been a tin knocker instead of an English teacher.

    Dale

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  26. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Yup, some of the EAA guys I have met:
    1. "Grade 8 bolts are stronger than AN, so you can substitute them just fine."
    2. Using a HF 120 volts flux core MIG to make an airframe from 3/4" EMT.
    3. Using Home Depot flashing to make new gussets for a CGS Hawk repair.
    4. No backup plan at all for any situation.
    Why are you berating EAA members? (Well, except for the fact that you berate everyone).

    The workmanship I've seen on many experimentals has been impeccable. Just to give you an example, when they judge a plane at Oshkosh, they go so far as to look at the back of the instrument panel to see how long the screws are. Proper length is 2 threads past the nut. 1 thread past the nut is too short, 3 threads past the nut is too long, both result in points being docked. Many of these people are true craftsman.

    Don't know where you've run across the people you claim to have met, must be a Pennsylvania thing...

    Oh, yea, I have been an EAA member for nearly 40 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosleyjr View Post
    Nothing wrong with that, unless at the end of the night you walk away from the fern thinking "What a prick"....
    May have mistaken a fern for a cactus.

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  29. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve45 View Post
    Why are you berating EAA members? (Well, except for the fact that you berate everyone).

    The workmanship I've seen on many experimentals has been impeccable. Just to give you an example, when they judge a plane at Oshkosh, they go so far as to look at the back of the instrument panel to see how long the screws are. Proper length is 2 threads past the nut. 1 thread past the nut is too short, 3 threads past the nut is too long, both result in points being docked. Many of these people are true craftsman.

    Don't know where you've run across the people you claim to have met, must be a Pennsylvania thing...

    Oh, yea, I have been an EAA member for nearly 40 years.
    I should have said "experimental aircraft builders" just to be politically correct ?

    FWIW I too was an EAA member for 25 or so years, saw excellent workmanship.

    I don't "beat up" on anyone that hasn't fired the first shot.... wanker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    I should have said "experimental aircraft builders" just to be politically correct ?

    FWIW I too was an EAA member for 25 or so years, saw excellent workmanship.

    I don't "beat up" on anyone that hasn't fired the first shot.... wanker.
    Just a minor "Sidebar".

    A lot of Americans think that some of the British terminology is "Cute" or "Quaint" ,

    But the Term "Wanker" literally meaning masturbator is of a level of offensiveness that is somewhere between b*astard and c*nt.

    So on the grinding thread there was a Brit (first time poster) that posted in two sections (at my own suggestion) ~ not a problem that you also called a wanker... That did elicit a (What's your problem type reaction out of him).

    Normally the rule on many forums is don't try to go out of your way to say stuff that in real life that the other person would probably punch you in the nose for YKWIM ? (that's usually the "Metric" for a temporary ban after a direct warning to "Play nice".).

    Would you get punched in the nose for calling someone you really didn't know a "Wanker ?" probably not , but depending on the situation / context, if things escalated you'd be shoved quite sharply and then after that a not insubstantial chance that someone would get punched in the nose.

    They're ALL good words when used appropriately. (save them for their best and most appropriate use... That's why they are there , don't wear them out as they loose their effectiveness. ).

    __________________________________________________ _______________________________________


    As far as OP goes , I don't think it's a UK thing but I definitely get the impression that he feels 'Dissed" ~ Regardless of what was actually said or how it was said Trboatworks "Read " on the intent in respect of how he felt could be right. These days people (generally) just don't understand ~ (what's involved in various technical "arts") ~ 'cuz of an emphasis and cultural value that is placed on computers , Apps and social media everything of "Significance" is only a mouse click away … Not.

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  32. #40
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    I've often considered taking a job in a foreign country, teaching English to the natives. The problem is....I don't want to work in the UK, and that's where they need it the most.

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