Rockford Economy Lathe Question....

travis.taylor · Dec 13, 2020

Hey all,

I'd appreciate a little help with a question about the newer, boxier style Rockford lathes.
I'm looking at a 17x30 for cheap. Seems to fit my needs pretty well. Short center, good swing,
and relatively easy to move at just 3000 lbs. I wouldn't mind something bigger/heavier, but the size/weight of tools becomes kind of a lifestyle choice once they can't be moved with the typical
5k forklift (imo)... I picture using it for bigger/rougher type of work. I've a smaller bench lathe
for the nice, little things.

Now for the question; Do these lathes have HARDENED beds? I've looked all over the place and can't seem to find any mention of it. All things considered, I would assume that the bed is, in fact, hardened given the type of role it's supposed to play, but you never know...

Any Rockford owner/operators out there that are able to chime in? I also wouldn't mind hearing any opinions about the machine in general. Dog or diamond in the rough??

All the best,

Travis

Limy Sami · Dec 14, 2020

FYI

The ''leaflet'' (I had a quick scan couldn't see hardened bed) http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/697/17247.pdf

The manual http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/697/5283.pdf

travis.taylor · Dec 14, 2020

Limy, exactly.. No specific mention as to whether the bed is hardened. The brochure states that it is of"close grained semi-steel" which sounds nice i suppose.

The reason I'm curious is because having a soft bed would most likely be a deal killer for me.
Unless we could get some first hand testimony to the fact that they wear very well regardless maybe..

travis.taylor · Dec 24, 2020

So for what it's worth, I contacted the seller and had him touch off the way with a file. He said they felt as if they were probably not hardened.
I went ahead and threw money down on it anyway. The capacity, footprint, and simplicity of this lathe has me convinced that it'll be a good fit for me overall. I'll post back here and possibly make a dedicated thread about the machine and my impression of it when I take delivery..

Travis

ClappedOutBport · Dec 25, 2020

Ways looked scraped in the brochure. While I'm sure it's possible, I've never seen hardened, scraped ways.

ratbldr427 · Dec 30, 2020

I had a 10" Rockford lathe that I gave away that had a decal on it that said either "Flame Hardened or Induction hardened " I think up by the headstock below the ways. Been awhile but think it was made in the late 60's early 70's.

thermite · Dec 31, 2020

travis.taylor said:
Limy, exactly.. No specific mention as to whether the bed is hardened. The brochure states that it is of"close grained semi-steel" which sounds nice i suppose.

The reason I'm curious is because having a soft bed would most likely be a deal killer for me.
Unless we could get some first hand testimony to the fact that they wear very well regardless maybe..

Looks as if they hit a lot of the right buttons. Got the "basics" right.

At just under 20" wide, the carriage is almost as wide as a 10EE. A wide carriage is characteristic of all the "Grand Old" long-life lathes. Compare the profiles with a Piss-is-on-yah Matthews, narrow carriage, spindly TS & HS jacked-up "in the sand".

Then compare with a Sheldon S or R, Cincinnati "Tray Top", or a Holbrook Major.

Beef! Looks as if "economy" meant compared to an L&S, Hendey, ATW, LeBlond heavy-Duty, Monarch, etc... not compared to a South Bend .... nor even a LeBlond "Regal"!

I think you are going to like Rockford's idea of "economy".

travis.taylor · Jan 1, 2021

ratbldr, are you certain it was a Rockford and not a Rockwell?

Thermite, You summized my feelings nicely. Looking at the photos, the proportions look good, don't they? The "economy" part of the lathe comes into play most with their execution on the gearing and
drive I think. Nothing fancy there, but seems sound.A proper spindle clutch/brake by the twin disc co., 12 spindle speeds operated via three levers giving a range of 32 to 804 rpm. Inside the splash lubricated headstock are spur gears; Can be noisy, but simple, strong, and cheap. The whole headstock and feed arrangement seems to me to be built to get shtuff done well without any of the niceties one will find in the pacemakers or monarchs, no?

Reversing the spindle is accomplished by stopping and restarting the motor in reverse instead of a more complex gear driven solution. The feed, ways, and apron are lubricated manually. The tailstock
is a two clamping bolt arrangement and cast rather plainly (I to appreciate the aesthetic, actually). The feed clutches at the apron are ?brass? cone clutches. Etc, etc.....

Rockford made lathes for a long time. Their bread was buttered in the shaper and planer business, however, where they made some apparently excellent machines. This considered, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt in that they knew what they were doing and when making this lathe sought to make it simply, but of good quality.

I hope I'm not wrong, we'll find out soon I suppose..

Travis

thermite · Jan 1, 2021

travis.taylor said:
ratbldr, are you certain it was a Rockford and not a Rockwell?

Thermite, You summized my feelings nicely. Looking at the photos, the proportions look good, don't they? The "economy" part of the lathe comes into play most with their execution on the gearing and
drive I think. Nothing fancy there, but seems sound.A proper spindle clutch/brake by the twin disc co., 12 spindle speeds operated via three levers giving a range of 32 to 804 rpm. Inside the headstock are simple spur gears; Can be noisy, but simple, strong, and cheap. The whole headstock and feed arrangement seems to me to be built to get
shtuff done well without any of the niceties one will find in the pacemakers or monarchs, no?

Reversing the spindle is accomplished by stopping and restarting the motor in reverse instead of a more complex gear driven solution. The feed, ways, and apron are lubricated manually. The tailstock
is a simple two clamping bolt arrangement and cast rather plainly (I to appreciate the aesthetic, actually). The feed clutches at the apron are simple ?brass? cone clutches. Etc, etc.....

Rockford made lathes for a long time. Their bread was buttered in the shaper and planer business, however, where they made some apparently excellent machines. This considered, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt in that they knew what they were doing and when making this lathe and sought to make it simply, but of good quality.

I hope I'm not wrong, we'll find out soon I suppose..

Travis

Clutches will be Bronze, not Brass, I am sure.

And a Monarch 10EE's gears are near-as-dammit 100% straight-cut involute spur ALSO, so "BFD".

Mind.. most are for threading and surfacing, not spindle-drive, but your Rockford (Sundstrand's original name) shouldn't be all THAT noisy.

Noooo.. it ain't a "Rockwell"!!!!

Probably has more in common with a Lodge & Shipley Model "X" 'coz it looks as if that was probably the "replacement market" - huge count of wartime & prewar L&S - it was aimed at.

Pure guess, but the "economy" Rockford hoped to present itself as a less painful step from old L&S Model X to new L&S Powerturn.

If only L&S Model X knew when to quit (generally, they did not quit..) there might have been a larger market!

travis.taylor · Jan 1, 2021

Good to hear it most likely shouldn't sound like a train passing by.. Funny thing though, I AM considering
purchasing a Rockwell 11x25 to take the place of my Southbend 9C. It's in excellent original condition, but
it gets a little frustrating sometimes when you just need to get metal moved. The Rockwell seems like an excellent
smaller machine to fill the Southbend's role..

We have an L&S model X at my place of employment. While I'm sure it was an excellent machine when in better shape,
it's without a doubt my least favorite machine to run there. We have some equally old and abused/neglected lathes,
a 14x30 pacemaker, a J&L #5, and a large sliding gap bed Leblond that are still a pleasure to run despite their alarming amount of wear. The L&S on the other hand, not so much....

thermite · Jan 1, 2021

travis.taylor said:
Good to hear it most likely shouldn't sound like a train passing by.. Funny thing though, I AM considering
purchasing a Rockwell 11x25 to take the place of my Southbend 9C. It's in excellent original condition, but
it gets a little frustrating sometimes when you just need to get metal moved. The Rockwell seems like an excellent
smaller machine to fill the Southbend's role..

We have an L&S model X at my place of employment. While I'm sure it was an excellent machine when in better shape,
it's without a doubt my least favorite machine to run there. We have some equally old and abused/neglected lathes,
a 14x30 pacemaker, a J&L #5, and a large sliding gap bed Leblond that are still a pleasure to run despite their alarming amount of wear. The L&S on the other hand, not so much....

LOL! "To be fair...." The Model X immediate predecessors were pre/during War Two ones. Mostly 1930's veterans still VERY well beloved at Galis. Vs the War ONE Niles, anyway.

Then again? That was as-of the dawn of the 1960's!!!

Least-wear, newest lathe, was a Cincinnati "tray top" I was stuck on for a short while as FNG, no seniority yet.

Thoroughly hated as it was only an 8-foot bed with under 20" swing, fewer than 10 HP, (might have been only 5 or 7 HP?). Anyway.. it couldn't efectively haul the neg-rake carbides we used, so only got the small jobs and all HSS tooled.

I was OK with that.

Bludgeon the top off the corn-cob stick-weld with a Cobra, switch to a tough Mo-Max, finish by pushing razor-sharp Rex 95. I'd deliver a finished job not terribly warm whilst the guy next to me was spending 20 minutes with an air-hose cooling his overheated part down so the Foreman could check the dimensions! Neg-rake Carbides usta suck balls, cutting stick-weld!

I'd guess your Day Job one has earned a rest, but is too L&S stubborn to INSIST on it?

Homebrewblob · Jan 1, 2021

thermite said:
LOL! "To be fair...." The Model X immediate predecessors were pre/during War Two ones. Mostly 1930's veterans still VERY well beloved at Galis. Vs the War ONE Niles, anyway.

Then again? That was as-of the dawn of the 1960's!!!

I'd guess your one has earned a rest, but is too stubborn to INSIST on it?

Happy new year thermite! What liquor do you drink!?

thermite · Jan 2, 2021

Homebrewblob said:
Happy new year thermite! What liquor do you drink!?

And you, kind Sir!

Usta be.... Old Pulteny, Scapa, Bushmill's Green, the MacAllen 12, George Dickel or one of the Bowman Virginians finest. Prolly have two dozen OTHERS around... for guests? Not much we can NOT pour, here. You name it, we have it handy.

But the corks tend to rot, we pour so SELDOM!

New Years Eve, I set pretty much that very collection out, plus Piper-Heidsieck and Taittinger bubbly.

Mindful of age, I settled for a wee dram of St. Brendan's Irish Cream - made with "The Quiet Man" Irish...in a solitary cup of Brazil Santos Coffee.

Instant, yet. But "high Octane!" No wimp-ass de-caf for me!

And was the better for it...

"Moderation in all things!"

Except bashing looter-lie-bore-alls and kindred f**kwits, of course!

A man has to believe in SOMETHING!

I believe maybe NEXT New Years I'll have a drink?

Gotta have something to look FORWARD to, tough as the years are getting of late!

Or maybe it's just the surplus of f**kwits?

Slàinte Mhath!

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