What is the Emco Super 11 equivalent in a Mill?
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    16
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default What is the Emco Super 11 equivalent in a Mill?

    You all have been super helpful in my lathe hunt so asking a similar question on mills. At first I was thinking I would get a Taiwanese bench mill for about 4-5k new but after learning how much better the Emco lathes are versus what I was looking at I have the same question for mills. No combo units as Iím pretty sure Iíll regret it.
    Looking to use it mostly for aluminum, some stainless steel but likely limited. No desire to convert to cnc. The last open spot I have in my shop is only 30d x 30w so not looking for a knee mill, something smaller but high quality I can put in casters (leveling feet when in use).
    Budget 5ish k not including tooling, etc.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    9,078
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    599
    Likes (Received)
    6563

    Default

    I'd suggest a $2.5K knee mill and a $2.5K room addition? $250 a square foot could buy you the extra 10 square feet or so you need. Even the smallest table Millrite (and they're nice 2/3rd Bridgeport-sized mills) isn't going to have a 30" x 30" footprint.

    Depending upon your work a Hardinge horizontal might almost fit. You probably want a vertical mill, though, and the vertical heads for these are pretty limited.

    I do recall a cool German desktop mill - but it was more like $30K.

    At the risk of confining myself to machinist purgatory - the better square column mill drills can be usable. But the better ones with a DRO will push your $5K budget and still not spin as fast as you'd like for aluminum.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Ontario
    Posts
    1,599
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    493
    Likes (Received)
    616

    Default

    I have a Clausing 8520, 2/3rds Bridgeport size knee mill, great little machine.

    Clausing Millers Models 8520 & 8525

    Rockwell made a similar sized machine, a buddy has one and loves it:

    Delta Rockwell milling machines

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    16
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    The above two look interesting, here is the new one I was looking at
    https://www.precisionmatthews.com/sh...recision-mill/

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Ontario
    Posts
    1,599
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    493
    Likes (Received)
    616

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tartcha View Post
    The above two look interesting, here is the new one I was looking at
    https://www.precisionmatthews.com/sh...recision-mill/

    Not in the same league...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    13,763
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    787
    Likes (Received)
    4535

    Default

    What is the Emco Super 11 equivalent in a Mill?


    Emco did make milling machines and the answer to the title question is the FB-2. I think the columns and heads were the same as the milling accessories for the Maximat lathes, but I have no personal experience.

    Emco (& Clones) FB-2 Miller

    I bought a new Rockwell vertical mill in 1974 and still think it was the best choice at the time and still do today. I think it is much better than a Clausing or Emco. I also have a Hardinge TM horizontal mill, but seldom have a job that requires it because the Rockwell can do about anything I need.

    All three of those machines were available new in 1974. But they are no longer made, so finding a nice one will not be easy. It would be tempting to buy the first nice one you see and not wait for the best possible machine to turn up.

    Larry

  7. Likes digger doug liked this post
  8. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,506
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    590
    Likes (Received)
    586

    Default

    Tom Senior Major or ELT with a vertical head.

    Or if the OP has more ooomph, a Deckel FP1

    L7

  9. Likes AlfaGTA liked this post
  10. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    124
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    38

    Default

    Emco FB2s are very limited machines.

    The only decent options in that size from Europe would be a deckel fp1, schaublin 13, aciera f3, sixis, thiel etc. Maybe a fehlmann or golmatic but they are $$$$$

    But I dont really know what the US market is like I dont think any of them would be that easy to find there.



    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

  11. Likes AlfaGTA liked this post
  12. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    16
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Iím happy to pay more for a better mill, size/footprint is one constraint I canít change. I would love to just get a good Bridgeport but no way I can fit that.

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Australia (Hobart)
    Posts
    4,009
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    615
    Likes (Received)
    3205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tartcha View Post
    You all have been super helpful in my lathe hunt so asking a similar question on mills. At first I was thinking I would get a Taiwanese bench mill for about 4-5k new but after learning how much better the Emco lathes are versus what I was looking at I have the same question for mills. No combo units as I’m pretty sure I’ll regret it.
    Looking to use it mostly for aluminum, some stainless steel but likely limited. No desire to convert to cnc. The last open spot I have in my shop is only 30d x 30w so not looking for a knee mill, something smaller but high quality I can put in casters (leveling feet when in use).
    Budget 5ish k not including tooling, etc.

    Thanks in advance.
    I've got an Emco FB-2 mill. For what I use it for, it's OK. Plastic, aluminium, occasionally steel & stainless.

    It's lightweight & feeble. Well built but simply not very rigid.

    My advice is, if this is to be your only machine - don't. I have 3 other mills and this one has its place for small/light/fiddly jobs, but that's all.

    PDW

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    princeton b.c.
    Posts
    285
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    536
    Likes (Received)
    92

    Default

    What seems to be rarely mentioned about manual mill choices in most threads is that while a Bridgeport or the same sized clones aren't the very best in absolute rigidity, they are so common because of there versatility. To me you can't look at any mill as just a machine tool. Depending on what your future wants and requirements might be, there's few other mill types that can do all that much more than straight X,Y,Z vertical milling compared to the BP design. I'm not including the European Deckels and others like them that I'd still rather have. But if the job could be accomplished at all on a 2200 lb sized mill, then there was an accessory made for those Bridgeport dimensions. That ram dovetail way, Bridgeport's and clones 3 3/8" spindle nose diameter, R8 taper and a few other critical areas on the head and ram allows all those various attachments to be used as a direct fit without any modifications. That R8 spindle taper is now almost a light weight antique compared to the better 30,40,50 tapers, but if it's not available in R8 you probably don't need it. In a commercial shop there requirements are of course different but that's not you so a few more lighter passes aren't a big deal.

    I just bought an as new condition Volstro rotary milling head for my BP clone. That's just one example, but there were a vast number of spindle mounted accessory heads, ram mounted slotting heads, cherrying heads etc,etc. designed around the BP platform.I originally bought my mill because it had the same dimensions and features as a real BP. Try adding anything designed for a BP to the square column mills. That might be a whole lot more work than I'd want to bother with. I also wouldn't consider any mill that didn't have the built in 3 spd power feeds on the spindle. Yes there's a couple of square column mills that offer it, but at the same price of the smaller BP clone knee mills are. Most BP clones either come with those spindle feeds or it's an optional head. The built in variable speed would probably be nice, but with my step pulley and vfd in a home shop I don't think it's really worth the extra or the possibility of having maybe a few more future maintenance issues if it uses the plastic bushings the real BP's do. I wouldn't ever trade what I bought for any square column off shore machine. Of course I wish I had a 40 taper 10"x50" 3500 lb+ vertical mill. I didn't want to pay what that would have cost, nor do I have the extra shop room. A home shop just about demands the type of versatility the manual knee mills come with. For whatever my opinion is worth, there's about three real choices. A real BP, a clone of one, or one of those Deckel/Euro type mills. I've had my mill for over 10 years now and I'd still buy the exact same machine today.

    Mine because of my shop size and restricted floor weight requirements is what's known as a baby BP or 3/4 sized. It still came with the full sized head for me to get those spindle feeds. Mine was built in Taiwan by a company called Bemato. I don't think there still making this size of mill since there now building some pretty large vertical, bed mills and cnc. But someone is, this is either an exact or extremely close copy of what I bought.https://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-935ts-tv/ Ok it's not a real BP, but when new mine had the exact same back lash numbers on the feed screws that BP themselves guarantee. It was tight, fairly well finished with accurately ground surfaces, and it's been more than I could have hoped for. Yes you said you have an area of 30"x30 and didn't want a knee mill, move something, knock a wall out and do what you have to to fit one in.

  15. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Country
    FINLAND
    Posts
    796
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    134
    Likes (Received)
    254

    Default

    I have a Deckel FP2 and find it to be a very capable machine for a small footprint

  16. Likes Terry Keeley, AlfaGTA liked this post
  17. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    734
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    196
    Likes (Received)
    293

    Default

    I wouldn't buy anything with a round column regardless of cost / weight. My home shop is a lot smaller than yours and I've got a couple of knee mills and a 17x40 lathe in there along with surface grinder, welders, benches, wood working stuff etc.

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    21,073
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tartcha View Post
    The above two look interesting, here is the new one I was looking at
    https://www.precisionmatthews.com/sh...recision-mill/
    You keep providing linkys to PM...even when told they are no good.

    Are you a shill for PM ?

  19. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Country
    LATVIA
    Posts
    755
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    209
    Likes (Received)
    443

    Default

    I wonder what buzz word will they attach next to their product name when customers will get disappointed in the ULTRA PRECISION level of quality they offer now...

    this isn't the first, seemingly intentional, effort to promote these machines as the "reasonable option", simply because there isn't anything else that is new at that price/size/weight, the idea probably is to create enough references on the interwebs so that people googling around for info on these will see general opinion that they ain't that bad, but just looking at the pictures of that "ULTRA PRECISION machine" it is quite clear that there is absolutely nothing special about it, same old cheap toy meant to make money for the reseller

  20. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Washington
    Posts
    16
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    You keep providing linkys to PM...even when told they are no good.

    Are you a shill for PM ?
    Absolutely not, it however is interesting how well the Chinese machines have dominated the internet and other forums. A search for best metal lathe gives nothing but bad options. Unlike most other tools categories where itís pretty clear whats best (Miller, hypertherm, Festool/sawstop, etc). If you believe the internet reviews and another unnamed forum PM looks the best, but likely just the best at marketing...

    The last couple days have been super helpful and Iím a strong believer in spending the money and buying something once.

    Going to go used on both machines and donít mind waiting.

    .

  21. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,127
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    11
    Likes (Received)
    141

    Default

    Consider a used Millrite mill also. Beefier than a Clausing or Rockwell, but smaller than a bridgeport. Came available in 3 different table lenghts.

  22. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Eastern Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5834
    Likes (Received)
    6229

    Default

    This may seem off the mark but likely the closest equivalent is the Emco FB2, although the work envelope is definitely more equivalent to an Emco Compact 8 lathe.

    The FB2 is a bench top vertical mill whose basic design has been widely copied. Most of the Asian round column mill/drills are based on it, although unlike the Emco most of them suffer from alignment issues when raising or lowering the head.

  23. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Benicia California USA
    Posts
    8,704
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2256
    Likes (Received)
    3098

    Default

    Deckel FP1.
    Look for a later version with the 40 taper spindles. Real power feed in both X and Z. Gear driven spindles. Small footprint, and because the table does not move in the "Y"
    It can be parked in close to other equipment. Tilting and swiveling tables available as are accessories like high speed head and slotting attachments....
    Horizontal / vertical spindles make it work bigger than its size. New (repop) can be had from FPS in Germany if you have the budget....But good used are out there if you look.
    Good luck!


    Cheers Ross

  24. Likes PDW liked this post
  25. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Country
    LATVIA
    Posts
    755
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    209
    Likes (Received)
    443

    Default

    Fehlmann P18 and P50 deserve mentioning - and don't be distracted by the round columns, they are the best that is out there in that size/design, capable of light milling, P50 is a 1000kg machine (with most of it in the machine, bench is sheet metal ~120kg), 150mm column is solid, jig bore build quality (supposedly), and were quite expensive back in the day

    edit, and as Ross mentioned - Deckel FP1 or Maho 400, pretty much the same footprint as Fehlmanns, more capable for mill work, maybe a bit less travel in the long axis compared to P50 Fehlmann

  26. Likes AlfaGTA liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •