What is the proper collet for this vintage dividing head
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    Default What is the proper collet for this vintage dividing head

    divhead.jpg

    I am trying to find the taper collet that fits this dividing head. I took measurements as best I can and they show a taper of 0.040 per inch. This taper seems to match the Brown & Sharp #8 taper collets but these use a threaded rod from the rear to tighten it and not the front nut. Also, no one seems to carry #8 B&S taper collets. Any help would be much appreciated; I have included pictures of the dividing head and a drawing with dimensions.
    Thanks !
    Eugwine

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    I am not familiar when that head style, myself I would adapt it for a modern collet system such as ER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugwine View Post
    divhead.jpg

    I am trying to find the taper collet that fits this dividing head. I took measurements as best I can and they show a taper of 0.040 per inch. This taper seems to match the Brown & Sharp #8 taper collets but these use a threaded rod from the rear to tighten it and not the front nut. Also, no one seems to carry #8 B&S taper collets. Any help would be much appreciated; I have included pictures of the dividing head and a drawing with dimensions.
    Thanks !
    Eugwine
    I do not recognize that DH, but..'

    I have the not-terribly uncommon "Ellis" A light, compact, combination DH and indexer.

    And it DOES use a #9 B&S taper.

    As well as a threaded nose that wasn't SUPER rare - a few lathes used it - but has become hard to find.

    So yes, a B&S is probably the correct taper for your one as well.

    "Reason?" Well.. my Ellis is the right size for use with my mills. And two of them use #9 B&S tooling. Which DOES have a threaded arse for a drawbar, not only on collets, but milling-cutter holders and all other B&S #9 (I have lots of it).

    They may exist, but I've never seen a nose-nut closer on a B&S collet.
    Always drawbar.

    B&S is also considered a falr-decent "self holding" taper. More so than Morse when under side load, rather than end-load, anyway. That's WHY B&S was used on mills, MT on drills.

    Commonality could have been an economic advantage in a small shop "back in the day" when a Morse taper was more common on a drillpress.

    - Few drillpress operations are likely to need a DH.

    - MANY milling operation can make use of a DH.

    Downsides?

    The only NEW B&S collets I've seen easily found were Chinese-made and sold by H&H Industrial.. in #7 B&S or #9 B&S. Only.

    B&S Taper

    I have a set in #9 B&S. decent enough. I just don't much use them, given I have side-lock milling-cutter holders, PDQ-Marlin.. and more.

    India made (at least) B&S #9, #10, #11 as well. Can't find the link now.

    All else is even scarcer unless found used.

    Hope yours is NOT a #8, but either of the more common #7 or #9, rather.

    Collets? Not easy to DIY.

    B&S taper tails? Not HARD to DIY.

    So you COULD adapt even just ONE such tail to a nose-nut-closer collet system.

    There are several of those around.

    Same again a small chuck if your threads for a backplate are uncommon.

    One or two B&S tails, #8 if that IS what it is, and you could be "in business" with a handy, small, light, DH.

    Age doesn't much matter, so long as it isn't damaged. It is really RARE for a DH to get "worn out". They just aren't used all that often.

    2CW

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    another fucking stupid post termite! No one can make sense of your rambling garbage.

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    B and S #9 with an adapter sleeve inserted to reduce to #8 or something else. Thread protector nut.

    Not sure but that's what it looks like to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strokersix View Post
    B and S #9 with an adapter sleeve inserted to reduce to #8 or something else. Thread protector nut.

    Not sure but that's what it looks like to me.
    YES!

    Just zoomed the p*** out of it.

    Much higher-res foto than expected.

    Protector certainly.

    Just about as certain that IS a removable sleeve, too!

    Time to fab a close-fitted knockout bar so as not to "upset" the arse-end and jam it in place.

    Wide temp swings, oven to freezer cycles, might be wise before starting at it.

    "Kroil" as well.

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    If you are going to own ancient stuff that is orphan in every way, you'll have to get used to the idea of MAKING stuff for it. This mostly eliminates the concept of BUYING stuff that fits it - especially when such stuff does not exist

    For instance - if one DID find B&S 8 for sale, it would look like the way longer B&S 8 taper

    Standard Tapers

    have fun

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    I usually associate the 1-1/2-8 thread with South Bend lathe spindles. Saying that, the .940" dia. at the big end at the face of the spindle is basically the same as that on a SBL. The SBL uses a No. 3 Morse taper in the spindle. You might blue up a 3 MT shank and wring it in the bore and see if it matches up. I'm not denying your numbers here, just using some logical sense here. Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4GSR View Post
    I usually associate the 1-1/2-8 thread with South Bend lathe spindles. Saying that, the .940" dia. at the big end at the face of the spindle is basically the same as that on a SBL. The SBL uses a No. 3 Morse taper in the spindle. You might blue up a 3 MT shank and wring it in the bore and see if it matches up. I'm not denying your numbers here, just using some logical sense here. Ken
    SB was not the only 1 1/2"-8 user.

    But check closely.

    Ellis used a 1 3/4"-8 thread. As did a handful of lathe makers - long gone ones by now.

    Very similar looking at a glance.. unless one has both to-hand.. or actually measures, of course.

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    termite the racist statements you made under your also fake forum ID "Monarchist, just shows what a piece of shit you are, stupid troll with an addiction to posting every day on this forum.
    Hit the road shit ass!

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    Per OP, if cost is an issue, knock out the insert, find a threaded back 4 jaw chuck and stick it on the nose - that will give the most flexibility and the most bar capacity through the spindle.

    If funds are unlimited, an adjustru-type chuck can be an upgrade convenience for quick moderate tolerance work with a little less holding power.

    My personal approach would be to bore/grind the spindle to take 5c collets. It is already oh-so-close as found. 5c offers the option of stops, pot chucks and other convenience features.

    The quickest approach to get work up close in the spindle nose could be (have not checked/compared specs) to grind the spindle nose or make an insert for ER40 (or 32) Then make a closer nut to fit the existing threads.

    Fastest of all, buy suitable shank ER40 collet chuck and adapt shank as preferred. It does not solve the problem of work extending a few inches from the spindle, and it does not offer any bar length capacity unless you bore the shank. In which cast the bar diameter would be limited to less than possible through a bare spindle.

    good luck!
    smt

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen thomas View Post
    Fastest of all, buy suitable shank ER40 collet chuck and adapt shank as preferred. It does not solve the problem of work extending a few inches from the spindle, and it does not offer any bar length capacity unless you bore the shank. In which cast the bar diameter would be limited to less than possible through a bare spindle.
    Well it CAN solve.... just buy a 1 1/2"-8 mounted through-bore ER-40 as one would for a SB spindle. (My one is D1-3)

    Or a 1 1/2"-8 backplate . plus a plate-mount ER-40.

    Or - as I keep one of - a plate-mount ER-40 to be used in a 4-J chuck, on the bench, or on a rotab.

    Now you can have full use of the bore as well as gripping shorter goods larger than the bore.

    No "shank" involved.

    Given only ONE set of ER-40 collets serves those, plus a 2-MT, 5 MT, 3/4" straight-shank, 40-taper, hex and square collet blocks all in ER-40, it is actually pretty CHEAP to go that route.

    NB: I did find a chuck to fit the odd 1 3/4"-8 thread on the Ellis DH, but..

    ..it is soo HEAVY that adapting a collet really is more all-around useful.

    ..the other thing I was using is a #9 B&S shell-mill holder modified to mount a sort of spider with clamping screws.

    One could do MUCH better by machining a used holder of that sort for a small flat-back chuck of around 4" or so. They don't have to work as hard or as often on a DH as they would on a lathe, so a cheap one will do just fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    termite the racist statements you made under your also fake forum ID "Monarchist, just shows what a piece of shit you are, stupid troll with an addiction to posting every day on this forum.
    Hit the road shit ass!
    As far as someone being a troll I notice that TWICE so far in this thread you've followed a thermite post with a hostile rant. The back and forth between you two has polluted several other threads and I'm making this post to point out that in this instance you are the instigator and I hope others will also note who snipes first whenever this happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottl View Post
    As far as someone being a troll I notice that TWICE so far in this thread you've followed a thermite post with a hostile rant. The back and forth between you two has polluted several other threads and I'm making this post to point out that in this instance you are the instigator and I hope others will also note who snipes first whenever this happens.
    Pardon me?

    "back and forth"? You might do a smidge of research?

    Check the records! ONE WAY.. only...

    His profile, walk back the posts. Hardly ANY content. NEARLY ALL hostility.

    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/members/donie/

    thermite's profile, walk back the posts. NO hostility. ALL content.

    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/members/thermite/

    "thermite" hasn't posted a single damned BYTE in that <redacted> direction since ASKED not to do ... by Milacron ... close to two MONTHS ago!

    14 April, 2021.

    Nor will I.

    Take one for the team?

    Take one million for the team.

    All the same to me.

    It is Don who is "donating" the economic loss of that hateful behaviour.
    Doesn't affect my bank account at all.

    All I can do is try to contribute enough USEFUL help to offset some of the loss.

    I did say "team"?

    Don't bitch-in.

    Pitch-in !!!

    Bring something useful to the shared "stone soup" cauldron.
    No one need go away hungry.

    Good folk are still here. It's the whiner-hater-blamers who leave.

    Someone irritates you? Use the "ignore" feature and carry-on unaffected.


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