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What is worse,conterfiters or selling out a brand name ?

edwin dirnbeck

Hot Rolled
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Location
st,louis mo
No one likes to get cheated by counterfeit goods,but if you by a Rolex watch for 89 dollars,I think you know what you are getting.Where I have been screwed more is buying"ONCE WELL RESECTED BRAND NAME" goods at reliable stores.Many old line high quality companies have gone bankrupt.This is a normal thing in business,nothing lasts forever. Instead of going out quietly ,they sell the name and screw the unsuspecting public. I fully expect to see a General Electric 40 pc. socket set by Dec,2018.Edwin Dirnbeck
 
What brought this on? Did you buy some name brand item and found out it is now cheaply made overseas? Dont leave us hanging, what is it?

I thought I saw GE socket set on the late night infomercials for $19.99, limited time only and a free pair of miracle pliers and wait there is more a screwdriver with 100 bits that will fit any screw known to man....
 
What brought this on? Did you buy some name brand item and found out it is now cheaply made overseas? Dont leave us hanging, what is it?

I thought I saw GE socket set on the late night infomercials for $19.99, limited time only and a free pair of miracle pliers and wait there is more a screwdriver with 100 bits that will fit any screw known to man....

I had a new Sunbeam mixer fail in 3 months and a nice looking GE under counter clock radio that never worked right but it was such a hastle installing that I just lived with it for a year.before I got digusted and trashed it. Now there is everything from bottle opener to back scrachers with the Craftsman name.All made in China.Falstaff beer,once the best selling beer in St Louis,the great grandkids graduated from colledge sold the name and retired to Paris. OH,the horror..Edwin Dirnbeck
 
Blame guys like "Chainsaw" Al Dunlap, former CEO of Sunbeam and Eddie Lampert, the buyout guy who bought K-Mart and then used it to buy Sears.
 
Blame guys like "Chainsaw" Al Dunlap, former CEO of Sunbeam and Eddie Lampert, the buyout guy who bought K-Mart and then used it to buy Sears.

Growing up Sears was THE tool heaven for me... A nice craftsman open end wrench was just the right shape and weight for my hands.. Now they are just junk.

I needed a large size wrench to fit one of my machines and a quick look on line found that in College Station Texas the only place that had one was the Sears store in the mall..

I have not been in a sears store in probably 10 years... The tool department was a shell of its former glory and I was shocked how cheaply made everything was... Now I'll give them credit as they did have the only wench in town. I was very sad to see the quality and it took me an hour to grind and smooth the edges of that wrench so I could use it without cutting my hands to ribbons...

I have noticed that Craftsman tools are now featured at our local ACE Hardware and have an entire asle filled with Craftsman tools... I haven't even bothered to walk down that asle......
 
This was really the point I was making in the " Boycott America " thread. I don't buy American anymore because 95% of it doesn't appear to be made in America. In the old days when I was still working I was a tool addict and I'd make a bee-line for American made tools. They were usually well designed and nicely made out of good materials. The last few things I bought were a disappointment.

Yesterday I had a trip to TKMaxx, I got myself a really nice " Gant " tee shirt which I'm wearing now. Turns out to have been made in Turkey. I was looking at some " Vivienne Westwood " polo shirts, they were £50 , too rich for my blood especially as they were also made in Turkey !

Over here it's the same. Lot's of English products that you could rely on are made abroad. The " John Smedley " sweaters I favour are still made in the UK but for how long ?

Regards Tyrone
 
This was really the point I was making in the " Boycott America " thread. I don't buy American anymore because 95% of it doesn't appear to be made in America. In the old days when I was still working I was a tool addict and I'd make a bee-line for American made tools. They were usually well designed and nicely made out of good materials. The last few things I bought were a disappointment.

Yesterday I had a trip to TKMaxx, I got myself a really nice " Gant " tee shirt which I'm wearing now. Turns out to have been made in Turkey. I was looking at some " Vivienne Westwood " polo shirts, they were £50 , too rich for my blood especially as they were also made in Turkey !

Over here it's the same. Lot's of English products that you could rely on are made abroad. The " John Smedley " sweaters I favour are still made in the UK but for how long ?

Regards Tyrone

It's the same in Australia - you can't rely on brand names to represent quality at all any more.

I got some really nice long Tee's that had a known brand name, made in Bangladesh. Really nice thick soft cotton. A year later, same brand name, made in China, half the thickness, nowhere near as nice a feel. Same price though.

WRT tools I'm not going to pay brand name prices for what to my eyes is indistinguishable from no-name stuff. If the big manufacturers want to outsource, that's one thing. Drop quality while holding price, shove it, I'll buy elsewhere.

Not aimed at US manufacturers but they sure led the way. As far as I'm concerned putting a known old quality name on a no better than average tool is the same as counterfeiting it even if the company doing it still owns the brand. I'm not getting the quality that the name implies.

The annoying thing is, they think we're stupid enough not to notice then run whining about unfair competition when we walk away & buy elsewhere.

I had a look at some Aldi power tools today & walked away. OK they're cheap and probably you get what you pay for but that's my point - I happily pay 2X or 3X as much for the better quality (I do have 3 Aldi angle grinders though, bought as disposa-tools for a butcherous job; 2 of them still work). Putting say a Metabo label on them (to pick a non-USA manufacturer) doesn't change the quality.

PDW
 
It's the same in Australia - you can't rely on brand names to represent quality at all any more.

I got some really nice long Tee's that had a known brand name, made in Bangladesh. Really nice thick soft cotton. A year later, same brand name, made in China, half the thickness, nowhere near as nice a feel. Same price though.

WRT tools I'm not going to pay brand name prices for what to my eyes is indistinguishable from no-name stuff. If the big manufacturers want to outsource, that's one thing. Drop quality while holding price, shove it, I'll buy elsewhere.

Not aimed at US manufacturers but they sure led the way. As far as I'm concerned putting a known old quality name on a no better than average tool is the same as counterfeiting it even if the company doing it still owns the brand. I'm not getting the quality that the name implies.

The annoying thing is, they think we're stupid enough not to notice then run whining about unfair competition when we walk away & buy elsewhere.

I had a look at some Aldi power tools today & walked away. OK they're cheap and probably you get what you pay for but that's my point - I happily pay 2X or 3X as much for the better quality (I do have 3 Aldi angle grinders though, bought as disposa-tools for a butcherous job; 2 of them still work). Putting say a Metabo label on them (to pick a non-USA manufacturer) doesn't change the quality.

PDW

I think is is eminently fair and correct to lay the start of the decline at the doorstep of US market suppliers. Around 30 years i have been among those classing it as "The American Disease" AKA "we are cheaper than.." or "race to the bottom".

Not just tools. Everything. "Services" included - Governmental as well as private - as much the same as goods.

That said, "America" didn't seem to have patented product cheapening.
American or general greed, the "disease" had long-since spread to European and Japanese makers, too.

There remain work-arounds. I can still get "good" wrenches from S-K, whether QUITE as good as my 50+ year-old ones or no. Wright tools seem to have held firmer yet as to making the same quality as they always have. Both can be direct-ordered, online.

As to stocking distributors, dealers, or "retailers"? Gone. Only heavy truck and heavy equipment suppliers still have these 'on the wall". No longer ANY "consumer" outlets anywhere near me save the local Caterpillar & other Earthmover dealer. There's a truck parts supplier in St. Louis, IIRC, that has shelf stock even when S-K or Wright may be OUT of stock at the factory.

Similar with powered hand tools. My few Bosch goods are all Bosch-Scintilla (their Swiss plant). Hilti, ISTR are from a Czech factory, not a Chinese one. One Japanese brand was actually made at a plant in the UK!

Bottom line is that there still IS a market for the better goods. It is even still a significant market as to holding "critical mass" enough to keep the doors open and prosper on into the future.

So long as.. enough discerning buyers still do the - unfortunately NOW UNAVOIDABLE - deep-dive to FIND these sources. And then... actually "vote" with their purchase dollar to help keep them alive in our own interest, however seldom needed.

The "curse" of better goods, y'see is that they DO last a lifetime or close to it.

Meanwhile computerized "Point of Sale" systems are showing the retailers - brick-and-mortar OR "online' - that the way to THEIR "near -term" success is to keep selling the ever-cheaper schlock, 'coz Harry Homeowner or Joe shade-tree aprt time mechanic will ALWAYS out number a many-decades seasoned heavy equipment mechanic or the like.

"Boycott America". Not good enough. No need to "boycott" anyone.

Just BUY THE GOOD STUFF.

Trust this: Stick TO that, there won't be any money LEFT OVER to buy much of the cheap shite! Nor much of a need, either.

Unless it really IS "throwaway" expendable, really rare need, etc..

At which point, Harbor Freight - who are actually trying to at least "modestly" IMPROVE their quality/value-for-money standing, may be found the better deal that [i[former-glory[/i] names who have not yet ceased degrading theirs.


:)
 
"Boycott America". Not good enough. No need to "boycott" anyone.

Just BUY THE GOOD STUFF.

Yep, that's what I do if I can. You're right about the good stuff lasting, too. I'm still using ring spanners, sockets etc that I bought 50 years ago and I have a pile I inherited that are even older but still in perfect working condition.

Occasionally I need a socket that I'm going to weld, cut or otherwise butcher. The cheap ones are perfect for that, preferably the 6 point impact ones. Once I bought a complete set of 3/4" square drive impact sockets from Supercheap Auto because I had a ship in dry dock, needed a custom socket to fit over a cable gland and no possibility of finding a crowfoot wrench to suit anywhere. 15 minutes with a grinder & welder made a 'good enough' one for the job at hand and got us out of trouble. We sourced a decent tool for the job and tossed both in the tool kit for the next dry dock job.

PDW
 
Yep, that's what I do if I can. You're right about the good stuff lasting, too. I'm still using ring spanners, sockets etc that I bought 50 years ago and I have a pile I inherited that are even older but still in perfect working condition.
Makes it HARD for a maker of such tools to know that the better they do their job, the fewer tools they can sell!
;)
preferably the 6 point impact ones. Once I bought a complete set of 3/4" square drive impact sockets from Supercheap Auto because I had a ship in dry dock, needed a custom socket to fit over a cable gland and no possibility of finding a crowfoot wrench to suit anywhere.

Big plus on the black-oxide 6-point impact ones. I avoid 12-pointers "in general" anyway for 6, 8, 4 and the odd "penta" socket..

I HAD crowfoots, but needed a crowfoot FLARE in 1 1/4" to get at a fitting as was a seriously awkward reach - down inside a water meter box - and special-ordered it.

"Overkill"? Once past the emergency, I more deliberately filled-out the arsenal by laying-in US and Metric crowfoot, plus the rest of the set as US & Metric crowfoot FLARE 7/16" / 10 mm up to 1 1/2", 30 mm, 3/8". 1/2", 3/4" drive.

ISTR I've only twice since had need of any of those.

:)
 
"GE Selling socket sets for $4" ?
Seeing how their stock just got delisted, anything would be better eh ?
 
" Just BUY THE GOOD STUFF. "

Would someone care to list who what are the "good stuff" now? A name used to project standards of the company. Not anymore. The name "General Electric" used to stand for a class of quality products. GE hasn't made consumer products for years, along with a lot of industrial products. Just a name. Sad.

Tom
 
"Renting out" corporate names is very common today. For a while I worked at a company that manufactures consumer goods (in China) under about a dozen different well-known brand names. The interesting part is that although the goods are made in China the parent company exercises stringent quality controls and provide very good customer service, with real people available at the other end of the phone rather than voice mail hell.

Since moving on a few years ago I have purchased several items made by them.
 
" Just BUY THE GOOD STUFF. "

Would someone care to list who what are the "good stuff" now? A name used to project standards of the company. Not anymore. The name "General Electric" used to stand for a class of quality products. GE hasn't made consumer products for years, along with a lot of industrial products. Just a name. Sad.

Tom

Not completely true. While GE hasn't made consumer products in the USA for many years they still control manufacture of appliances. Not long ago we bought our latest clothes washer from GE after positive experience with our GE dryer bought a couple of years ago.
 
"Renting out" corporate names is very common today. For a while I worked at a company that manufactures consumer goods (in China) under about a dozen different well-known brand names. The interesting part is that although the goods are made in China the parent company exercises stringent quality controls and provide very good customer service, with real people available at the other end of the phone rather than voice mail hell.

Since moving on a few years ago I have purchased several items made by them.
Yes, so true, "Made in China" does not automatically mean it is low quality garbage. They can and will make to any price point. So when wallyworld or some other place wants a product made to a specific dollar value that is what is made. I can not blame chinese manufacturers for some purchase agent in USA wanting as low a priced item as possible.
Super cheap items have no room for paying for QC or for letting parts be scraped insted of built into products.
One of my oldest friends goes there regularly and says they make plenty of high quality stuff for domestic use that is not usually exported.
 
GE has never produced the best of any product. Yuck. Had to get that out.


But really....who is to blame for cheap goods? The consumer in most cases. Even here on PM we all sorts of ...people....who buy Harbor Freight crap knowing full well they could buy a better quality item. But they don't because they feel entitled to get the cheapest price. They want YOU to pay for the good stuff so all those mom n' pop stores (and great American corporations) stay in business while they gloat over the shit they were able to buy cheap. It's a little like how a certain political party wants the poor and non-Americans well treated with YOUR money....

Then, they invest their precious money in the stock market and demand that they see the highest rate of return. This drives the CEO's of said companies to become even more greedy than they already are in order to meet those expectations. So the cheapest crap they can sell for the most money becomes the norm.
 
I have always wondered about how much the cost would go up to improve the quality of various products. For instance Chinese lathes and mills. Just using good quality fasteners would be a huge improvement. How much to use a better grade of bearings and maybe a better grind on the ways and screws?

Maybe a new name brand specifying that kind of stuff and inspecting it to be sure could survive in the market.
 








 
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