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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Must be a pothead.
    Wow,
    Tough room.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by UptownSport View Post
    There isn't any (covert) psychological manipulation occurring, just a typical workplace.

    One manager is a stupid sadist, another is a stupid narcissistic- and they change roles on certain days.

    The big boss tells everyone exactly what they want to hear,with saccharine 'Wow, that was the most brilliant scheme I've ever heard, my only applicant, I'll hire you'

    You're 90% of the workforce.

    Above all, don't get any idea whatsoever that they're going to listen to anything you have to say. If you still believe so, you're too insane to be running about at your own liberty.

    Do what they say and graze until something better comes along.
    That's not an inaccurate "picture" for sure. ^^^

    The thing about malignant narcissists is that they are highly controlling people.

    That's no # 1 on the to do list every day as they roll out of bed in the morning. "Control".

    Malignant narcissists* (don't have to be geniuses) to be naturally very very good at manipulation.

    And as you say doesn't need to be super covert but sometimes people are naïve about subtle and persistent degradations that have a longer term corrosive effect. esp. in the workplace.

    manipulation goes hand in hand with control and IME people that have frustratedly(sp) very little control over their situation tend to become naturally and reflexively more manipulative (over time - incrementally) or cause really bad train wrecks they can step away from blamelessly. Sometimes the act of removing themselves from the situation actually causes giant egos to collide and the sh*t to hit the fan. Triangulation being most common or sycophantic "flying monkeys" doing the bidding of a "Big Dog" malignant narcissist.

    I agree that in larger work forces people underestimate the need to get ahead of the "Office politics" to stay afloat. We used to say the good people get chewed up and spat out but it's the sh*t that sticks.

    Quote Originally Posted by UptownSport View Post
    Above all, don't get any idea whatsoever that they're going to listen to anything you have to say. If you still believe so, you're too insane to be running about at your own liberty.
    I did manage to get a shop floor to change some of their practices but as I posted earlier, took about six months to gain people's trust - mainly listen and shut my mouth until it was clear what people really needed help with.

    Still you can only do so much and human nature being what it is , is only receptive to so much "Change".

    Everything that OP describes really does center around Submission, control and manipulative tactics and possibly not an insignificant amount of gaslighting.


    The more naïve someone is the more "covert" the manipulations seem, obvi. versus some one who is "old school" wise to all that BS.


    Abusive people are going to abuse, not everyone is so well equipped to deal with that. - It's hard from OP's description to say whether he or she is being overly defensive or not ?

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____


    * I try not to use labels but describe the behaviors, some times hard to parse PTSD with a dash of borderline personality disorder, vs.

    an alcoholic with depression and (what used too be called) bi-polar disorder , or a sociopath that has a "minor" in covert - narcissism, or histrionic with ... and on and on. Some of the traits or personality styles can be be intermittent versus truly disordered personalities that are more pervasive and permanent [by definition].

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  5. #43
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    Did anyone else get a headache trying to follow this thread?

    JH

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by James H Clark View Post
    Did anyone else get a headache trying to follow this thread?

    JH
    You can ease it with a few tokes....

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  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by James H Clark View Post
    Did anyone else get a headache trying to follow this thread?

    JH
    no, just nausea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    no, just nausea
    The green stuff is good for that, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    FWIW, giving him a pass on the title since it's his first post.
    First, and probably last. Got beat up pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    Hardinge seems to be hiring now for their newer "Made in America" push.

    That is definitely one work place that is not filled with maniacal douche bags, (at least not yet) :-).

    Nice folks.
    Nuttall Gear is like 1 mile from my house, they've had a billboard sign out by Rte 62 all summer offering a hiring bonus for machinists. Also looking for assemblers.

    There's a couple shops in the Tonawanda area, and in Buffalo/Cheektowaga area (mostly mechanical contractors, aerospace, and heat transfer).

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  14. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by James H Clark View Post
    Did anyone else get a headache trying to follow this thread?

    JH
    Nah, I've been in recovery for over a decade. I don't puke.

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    Classic bait and switch. I was in a similar situation last year in June.
    Left a job to go to a different one. Got a huge pay raise ($7.50/hr) and was hired to program, setup and sometimes operate their lathes. Was also told that I might be working with the engineers sometimes to develop the part machining processes (this was weird to me to see engineers having an input on how parts are machined).

    I got to program, setup and run a new part on the first week I was there. Second week I was put on a Haas lathe to run a production job because they didn't have anyone to do that because their Haas lathe guy had moved out of state. I thought ok, a production run here and there is ok.

    As days went by I started to see that there was nothing for me at that job. They already had someone who programmed the lathes, and had 2 others who programmed the mills. The only way I would be doing any of that was if any of those guys were out on vacation or something. I got stuck on that one Haas lathe running different production jobs everyday from week 2 to week 5. All they really needed was someone to setup and run that particular machine. I don't know why they even hired me.

    I decided that enough was enough and told the supervisor that the job is not for me and I would be leaving. Told them I would stay two more weeks if they needed me to and they were ok with that. They even offered another $2/hr more but no amount of money was going to make me stay miserable every day running 4 minute cycle time high volume production jobs. 7 weeks of misery was all I could put up with so I left.

    You should probably jump right back in the market to find a new job. It doesn't sound like you will be doing what you want and like to do at this new job. Things will probably never change there for you.

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  18. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fancuku View Post
    Classic bait and switch. I was in a similar situation last year in June.
    Left a job to go to a different one. Got a huge pay raise ($7.50/hr) and was hired to program, setup and sometimes operate their lathes. Was also told that I might be working with the engineers sometimes to develop the part machining processes (this was weird to me to see engineers having an input on how parts are machined).

    I got to program, setup and run a new part on the first week I was there. Second week I was put on a Haas lathe to run a production job because they didn't have anyone to do that because their Haas lathe guy had moved out of state. I thought ok, a production run here and there is ok.

    As days went by I started to see that there was nothing for me at that job. They already had someone who programmed the lathes, and had 2 others who programmed the mills. The only way I would be doing any of that was if any of those guys were out on vacation or something. I got stuck on that one Haas lathe running different production jobs everyday from week 2 to week 5. All they really needed was someone to setup and run that particular machine. I don't know why they even hired me.

    I decided that enough was enough and told the supervisor that the job is not for me and I would be leaving. Told them I would stay two more weeks if they needed me to and they were ok with that. They even offered another $2/hr more but no amount of money was going to make me stay miserable every day running 4 minute cycle time high volume production jobs. 7 weeks of misery was all I could put up with so I left.

    You should probably jump right back in the market to find a new job. It doesn't sound like you will be doing what you want and like to do at this new job. Things will probably never change there for you.
    I had a job like that early in my career. Gave notice one day as I was passed, took it back the next day but they told me to leave. Then tried to block unemployment. Well evidently if an employee gives notice and reminds in as it was under duress the employer can't hold that against you. Also by me telling them in the interview I wasn't interested in doing production work and was told I wouldn't, but ended up doing just that it was grounds for me to be able to file a greavance with unemployment.

    We had a hearing, the lady from unemployment ripped their hr rep a new asshole and assessed points to their record making it harder for them to deny unemployment to people.

    Fuck them, they got what they deserved. Their initials are smf...I call them silly mother fuckers lol.

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  20. #52
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    Look around the shop…is it everyone vs you? If so, it could take time for everyone to warm up to you…a LOT of people in this industry and very insecure and protective of their turf and don’t want some new guy swooping in and stealing their spotlight (in their minds.) However, if there is a lot of friendly fire all over the shop (i.e. not just against you) it is probably a toxic work environment and likely not going to get better any time soon. Talk to the other employees to see what they have to say…are they all poorly utilized? Good luck!

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  22. #53
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    There are a lot of companies where the owner and the upper management want the company to move in a direction but the middle managers are stuck in a groove which won't change.

    On your next interview don't pay much attention to the wishes and promises of the owner but request a one on one with who ever will be your direct boss. Then just ask your future boss what exactly they want out of you.

    Also one trick that has helped me in the past is to get your future boss to open up bit. Example....

    While walking around the floor with your future boss try to pick out a worker struggling and ask the future boss about them(that guy a good worker?) if the boss starts bad mouthing the worker then pass on the job.

    Disturbing how many bosses with talk bad about a worker to a complete stranger.

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  24. #54
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    After a complete working life in industry I can now officially say I’ve been exposed to every behaviour known to man, from sociopath to psychopaths in one day, mind games, control freaks you name it I’ve had it, including violence.
    There is only one counter measure I’ve found, humour, I reckon I’ve disarmed and simultaneously pissed off more bosses by laughing than by any other means, and when they get even more nuts, “ I thought you were joking” works every time
    Some people you really need to keep out of your head, once they get in they stay rent free, sitting at home and replaying your day will damage your health, mental and physical, so don’t do it, it’s hard at the start as it’s human nature but sitting down to dinner with that crap going through your mind doesn’t help you or your family, it’s obviously bothered you or you wouldn’t be posting it here, so I recommend flushing it out, ASAP, you’ll feel better
    Mark

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  26. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnworks View Post
    Disturbing how many bosses with talk bad about a worker to a complete stranger.
    Wonder how many workers will talk bad about their bosses to complete strangers? That's a much larger number.

    We have to remember that workers and bosses are both human.

    I think sometimes that workers view their boss like a child views their parents. That they aren't allowed to make mistakes, and that they should be held to some impossible standard.

    I would say hold yourself to that same standard, and ask yourself honestly if you are perfect. Because you are the only one you have the power to change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Overland View Post
    Your writing skills are very poor !
    If this illustrates how you think, you have a problem.
    I tried to read the post, and just gave up.

    not too bad, but "which" is spelled that way, not "witch" which is who they burned at the stake in early American history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnworks View Post
    There are a lot of companies where the owner and the upper management want the company to move in a direction but the middle managers are stuck in a groove which won't change.

    On your next interview don't pay much attention to the wishes and promises of the owner but request a one on one with who ever will be your direct boss. Then just ask your future boss what exactly they want out of you.

    Also one trick that has helped me in the past is to get your future boss to open up bit. Example....

    While walking around the floor with your future boss try to pick out a worker struggling and ask the future boss about them(that guy a good worker?) if the boss starts bad mouthing the worker then pass on the job.

    Disturbing how many bosses with talk bad about a worker to a complete stranger.
    agreed, I was lied to by the CEO who told me all the things they had and did, and he wanted me to work there for a month on a trial.. without pay...
    I told him no thanks... you hire me or not. I don't work for nothing. WTF was he thinking.

    Anyway I was desperate for a job, and he offered me one, and it was nothing like he said. None of the tools existed, and none of the supposed things they did were online yet. I had to create most of the things to bring them into the current century. And it wasn't easy. I got scraped and bruised every time.. He was the same with customers... lied to them and told them things that were not true. I wound up being the guy with the bad news about how we could not do what he promised.


    RUN... Don't walk... RUN.. find another job while you have this one. These people will never fully appreciate you.. Find a place where you like it.. it makes it much easier. Find a place that truly places the blame where it belongs... when it's you.. own up to it. When it's them, they don't throw you under the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodchuckNJ View Post
    agreed, I was lied to by the CEO who told me all the things they had and did, and he wanted me to work there for a month on a trial.. without pay...
    .
    What???
    Not only illegal but violates every insurance policy he owns.
    Should take the offer and then turn him in.
    Although I do not believe in it I could see a min wage trial period.
    Bob

  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alloy Mcgraw View Post
    Wonder how many workers will talk bad about their bosses to complete strangers? That's a much larger number.

    We have to remember that workers and bosses are both human.

    I think sometimes that workers view their boss like a child views their parents. That they aren't allowed to make mistakes, and that they should be held to some impossible standard.

    I would say hold yourself to that same standard, and ask yourself honestly if you are perfect. Because you are the only one you have the power to change.

    I agree there are more workers that talk bad about their bosses but for me the difference is I have to do what the boss says and they don't have to do what I say. I have had some really great bosses and owners over the years along with some great workers.

    I've been on both sides and made mistakes on both sides. I used to actually care about the companies I worked for but that has changed. Now I just keep my mouth shut, head down, stay off the radar, dont make any waves, take nothing personal, turn down any new fancy job titles politely and do my best at the tasks given to me and go home. As per an old boss I once had "workers should be seen not heard".

    Now I just count the hours until I'm off work to go live my life. I made the mistake thinking I could mingle the two at a job when I was younger. Still plan to hence me focusing on getting more work for myself off hours.

    The interview process when I was younger was to show them my best and do whatever it took to get the job. Now older with experience I focus mostly on trying to get a good sense of the company and my future role day in and day out will be then make my choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnworks View Post
    I agree there are more workers that talk bad about their bosses but for me the difference is I have to do what the boss says and they don't have to do what I say. I have had some really great bosses and owners over the years along with some great workers.

    I've been on both sides and made mistakes on both sides. I used to actually care about the companies I worked for but that has changed. Now I just keep my mouth shut, head down, stay off the radar, dont make any waves, take nothing personal, turn down any new fancy job titles politely and do my best at the tasks given to me and go home. As per an old boss I once had "workers should be seen not heard".

    Now I just count the hours until I'm off work to go live my life. I made the mistake thinking I could mingle the two at a job when I was younger. Still plan to hence me focusing on getting more work for myself off hours.

    The interview process when I was younger was to show them my best and do whatever it took to get the job. Now older with experience I focus mostly on trying to get a good sense of the company and my future role day in and day out will be then make my choice.
    That's sad, that you have become one of the 90 percenters. Not one of the 10% that carry the company. And you know that too.. you keep your head down and mouth shut... Companies talk about wanting innovators, but then they do everything to shut you up and make it hard if not impossible to help them.. what they really want are work slaves.

    Don't get me wrong, I have worked for great bosses that pushed me and worked with me.. but they are few and far between these days. Many ego hungry, and fearful managers today, afraid that you might be noticed and show them up... so they push you down. Sometimes they notice and steal your idea..

    I miss those good people to work for..


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