Wheel hub and studs question.
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  1. #1
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    Default Wheel hub and studs question.

    Afternoon Gents,

    I have been recently been purchasing wheel hub castings and machining them myself. So far have done 8 and need another 25 or so to do this year.

    The hole pattern is the the same as a land rover 5 stud pattern using 7.60x16 tyres. The hubs have 30209 bearings and I am using them on my trailers to cart tobacco and various farm stuff. No highway work. PCD is 165mm.

    Attached are pictures of the old style wheel studs we have been using for decades here and are not great. A local bolt manufacture has made these for me but are quiet expensive and am looking for an industry standard stud with similar dimensions. Have contacted couple vendors in SA and just waiting on their reply.

    The castings are not the greatest quality and have already sent back 2 out of the 12 I have bought. Some are really hard even once you get under the foundry scale.

    How many mm should the knurl be to bite into the Hub without peeling the knurl back. Currently the knurl is at 17.3mm OD and the hole 16.5mm and is peeling the knurl back. The thread is 16mm dia x 1.5mm pitch. The guy reckons I need 16.8mm hole, which I can’t find a drill that size or imperial equivalent. A few I have installed I have had to turn the knurl down a bit. After a few times of replacing flats they a few have started to slip and needed tack welds to keep in place.

    When I drill the stud holes is it necessary to be reaming them to finish size?

    TIA.
    img_7845.jpg

    img_7842.jpg

    img_7849.jpg


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    I'd have guessed you'd have issues with 0.8mm undersized hole. Likely only need 0.010" undersized (0.25mm) at the most. I'd try a 17mm drill. Unless it's drilling way oversized it should be tight enough for the service. I wouldn't think you'd need to ream but maybe. If the stud and casting are both pretty hard it could need to be closer.

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    I start reading the thread, and I'm thinking to myself.. Just go down to the parts
    store, they have every wheel stud you could possibly need, and then I look at the
    location.... And then it makes sense...

    I make some parts on occasion that have a straight knurl and get pressed into a hole,
    much like your studs.. 4140 into 4140.. About 9/16" diameter (14mm) and the knurl
    is .010 to .015 (.25mm to .4mm ish)... The hole size is .002-.004" bigger than the stud..

    Some are really hard even once you get under the foundry scale.
    Cast iron of some flavor?? Would the toss it in the fire and then pull it out in
    the morning trick work to anneal everything back??

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    Wheel studs proliferate - for very low costs - but naturally not over yonder

    5/8-18 is functionally close to M16 X 1.5 as long as one has the mating NUTS

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    Morning All,

    I have no experience with castings and annealing them. What temperature would the furnace be. Currently curing tobacco and have coal furnaces all at different temps.

    So to sum up an undersized hole of 0.002" / 0.5mm would be adequate to grab the knurl tight for life.
    Hole ID 16.5mm, knurl 17mm OD.
    Thanks guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbo View Post
    Morning All,

    I have no experience with castings and annealing them. What temperature would the furnace be. Currently curing tobacco and have coal furnaces all at different temps.

    .
    Thanks guys.
    No doubt the purists on PM will go apecrap at this, but it has worked for me.


    At it's most basic I have ''cooked'' 00's if not 000's of iron castings as follows (which might be handy for you in the bush)


    Build a fire using wood, coal, charcoal etc etc - ''almost anything'' you can lay your hands on that's dry and will burn.

    With a good bed of fire going load the castings on top, pile on more fuel and keep going for several hours, (dunno the temp but it will be hot enough!!)

    Then cover castings with ashes and clinker so the fire goes out and they take a long time to cool.


    P.S. It's also a great way of having a bloody good clear up

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    back to the hole size vs knurl.
    we manufacture a hub for an older gm vehicle. on this particular one (per gm print) the hole size is spec'd at .607 to .611
    measuring the knurl on the stud (varies) but let's say average .6265 - so there is the difference roughly 15-20 thou

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    Thanks Sami, will put a casting just inside the boiler furnace for a few hours and then cover it with ash and clinker when we do the clean out.

    cg285 thanks. Will experiment with a couple different sizes and go from there, within what you and Bob recommend.
    Thanks for the advise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post

    P.S. It's also a great way of having a bloody good clear up
    i like outdoor fires as much as anyone but what is a "bloody good clear up"? clearing the brush, clearing sinuses, scrap wood?? haha google was no help

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    Quote Originally Posted by cg285 View Post
    i like outdoor fires as much as anyone but what is a "bloody good clear up"? clearing the brush, clearing sinuses, scrap wood?? haha google was no help
    Ha ha, talk about separated by a common language, a bloody good clear up is all the crap, brush, etc etc that seems to build up around shops and yard (or my place anyways) - anything burnable, you're having a fire with a purpose, so take the chance to clean up.

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    I had a few wheel studs snap with bad threads that I replaced. I just removed some from the wrecking yard with a hammer. I installed them in the old holes with no hole prep. I did rotate them a bit so the splines lined up with the grooves. So I have to say not much interference is needed.
    Moost wheels are hub-centric not stud-centric. meaning they line up on the hub so studs do not have to be perfectly aligned. The grooves are just so the nut can be tightened or removed. If the hole was a little loose some locktite would be enough to fix it.
    Do you have problems getting stuff shipped to you from the States or Europe? I assume Amazon prime does not work for you.
    Bil lD
    Modesto, CA, USA

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    Not sure what version takes that bearing, but you do know you can buy a landrover hub with studs in it for circa £70 right? You must have a real cheap source of castings for that option to make more sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Not sure what version takes that bearing, but you do know you can buy a landrover hub with studs in it for circa £70 right? You must have a real cheap source of castings for that option to make more sense?
    These are our standard farm trailer wheel hubs we have been using forever. I guess from UDI days when parts were scarce, pre Zimbabwe. We refer to them as land rover hubs as they fit the big standard 5 stud Land rover rims 7.50/16. Series 1-3? Maybe? Before my time.

    I checked online, stateside and general hub, dust seal, bearings and dust cap kits were $69. Cost of my castings vary from $32-$45 between the 2 foundry’s.
    30209 bearings $15 ea and dust seal $5. These are all USD prices. I make up my own threaded dust caps.

    The castings are not the greatest and most very hard.

    img_7936.jpg
    Finished hub in the middle.
    img_7945.jpg
    $45 casting.
    img_7946.jpg
    $32 casting.


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    Only going by what I hear on the BBC World Service etc etc, so I may be 180 out on this Zimbo, but I shouldn't think it's ''that easy'' to find and use the foreign currency needed to pay for importing finished hubs either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    Only going by what I hear on the BBC World Service etc etc, so I may be 180 out on this Zimbo, but I shouldn't think it's ''that easy'' to find and use the foreign currency needed to pay for importing finished hubs either.
    Limy we have been waiting for 3 months for the reserve bank to pay us our cash portion of USD that the tobacco companies bring into the country as advances they give us to run our daily operations like payroll, power, fuel, etc. most inputs are in USD but fortunately most major expenses are over for the season. Busy robbing from Peter to pay Paul.

    In 1956 Salisbury (now harare) was the 4th wealthiest city in Africa! Prior to independence the Rhodesian dollar was stronger than the USD.



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    Morning.
    Been thinking of making a dust cap standard/ go gauge and need some threading advice for these hubs.

    In the past I have made knock on hub caps but my labour keep using them as a step to get onto the trailers and keep pulling them off. Maybe I haven’t been making them as tight as I should. If the ID is 85.5mm on the hub what would the press fit OD be on the hub cap be? 0.5mm bigger? I can increase the 85.5 ID to 86mm if need be.

    All my old hubs I have been threading a 1.5mm thread and making a hub cap to match. A few have had threads stripped and fallen off this season but not as many as the knock on ones.

    With the new cast iron hubs I was thinking of making a courser thread, 2mm threads to get more of a bite. The threaded part is only 12mm long. Should I use still a courser thread?

    The dust caps I have been using are boiler / steam pipes. With a welded plate on the end. In the past I had been using hydraulic tubes but had to machine a lot of steel off to make them lighter as they were end heavy and can’t seem to find enough scrap tubes. The steam pipe is 89mm OD with 3.3mm wall thickness.

    So I would like to make a male and female standard or go gauge to make the production faster. I have the pee dee wires and no 3rd hand but grease will work. Wheel hub and studs question.. Never used thread wires before and not having a machinery hand book to get specifics from. (Sore subject at home)
    Confirm the pitch dia of this size would be 87.5-1.295 = 86.20?
    If I am wanting to make a tighter fit would I machine the male or female tighter? By machining the make to correct size I will do the female part 2nd.
    Hope I am making myself clear on this. Or am I making this over complicated?
    Cheers
    Greg


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    Quote Originally Posted by zimbo View Post
    So I would like to make a male and female standard or go gauge to make the production faster. I have the pee dee wires and no 3rd hand but grease will work. Wheel hub and studs question.. Never used thread wires before and not having a machinery hand book to get specifics from. (Sore subject at home)
    Confirm the pitch dia of this size would be 87.5-1.295 = 86.20?
    Several online metric thread calculators exist, for example: Cambodia Engineering: ISO Screw Thread Calculator and Metric Thread Size and Tolerance Calculator

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountie View Post
    Several online metric thread calculators exist, for example: Cambodia Engineering: ISO Screw Thread Calculator and Metric Thread Size and Tolerance Calculator
    Ja. Thanks a bunch.


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    I do some hub and axle bolt pattern changes for the hot rod guys and I have quit using splined studs entirely . Now I tap the holes and use socket head cap screws. Saw some aftermarket hub/rotors today at my friends hot rod shop and that is what they are doing also. And wheels with taper seats for nuts ARE stud piloted.

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    If your hubs project enough why not use an internal snap ring and washer?If not then just have your castings made long enough to accomodate.I think it would be a time saver as far as machining goes.
    Machine a step to accommodate an o'ring, flat washer next then snap ring groove.


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