richard newman
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2006
- Location
- rochester, ny
Looking around at new, mostly imported small dividing heads, it seems they are all made with B&S 7 tapers. Why not 5C, which is so much more common in shops?
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Just a guess, but when Uncle Mao stole the plans that's what was indicated and they reasoned that if the Round Eyes made them that way so will we.
Karl
Looking around at new, mostly imported small dividing heads, it seems they are all made with B&S 7 tapers. Why not 5C, which is so much more common in shops?
... I bought 7 B&S collets for it and cut dozens of gears for my Hardinge and watchmaker lathes, using arbors I made to fit in the 1/2" collet supported in the DH tailstock. It worked fine.
In the years since I made those gears, I have bought about six Hardinge dividing heads and a Hardinge TM mill. But I have not used the Hardinge stuff to make a gear. Been thinking about it though, and might do it yet if the need becomes greater.
Larry,
Has there been some resurgence of these things? I ask, because we make them from time to time and the request is always seemingly out of the blue. However, in the last 9 months we have made three complete sets for the dividing heads. Given how much of a minority these things are, that's a veritable hot streak. I ask, because I estimate that given your activities you might be tuned into what's driving the desires.
Thanks.
Larry,
Yes. Apologies for my lack of phrasing clarity. My rush to type got the better of me.
Yes, the last three were for dividing head change gear sets, although we have made a number of gears for people wishing to have or fill out their Metric capabilities. Both happen just infrequently enough that I could never keep straight which was which until recently. After we started making our custom gear shaping cutters, I went ahead and designed one specifically for the HLV's special stub tooth. Probably not worth it economically, but since I wanted to practice with something, it seemed as good an effort as any, and now I know we will never have to worry about it again.
I understand when we get requests for the lathe gears, with their being so different. I simply found it surprising that we had three requests for the dividing head gears in such succession.
I'm aware of the Hardinge and Elgin dividing heads, and am keeping my eyes open for a reasonably (to me) priced one. And I get that the B&S7 was their milling machine taper. But that was designed for holding cutting tools, which require some serious gripping, as opposed to work holding.
Just saying that 5C would be way more convenient for me, and probably lots of other users.
Larry,
Has there been some resurgence of these things? I ask, because we make them from time to time and the request is always seemingly out of the blue. However, in the last 9 months we have made three complete sets for the dividing heads. Given how much of a minority these things are, that's a veritable hot streak. I ask, because I estimate that given your activities you might be tuned into what's driving the desires.
Thanks.
What are the chances set number one went to someone with a YouTube or Instagram presence. When some of these guys post about a new tool you can watch the eBay prices jump.
YouTube, YouTube and YouTube. There are so many good machine shop videos on there you want to do it. My mothers 4 brothers all went to California during the war and became machinists. It's in my blood. Now I'm a geezer. And finally have a shop at the house of my own to play in. I've always been a closet machinist. Now I'm coming out. And I want it all. And I want to learn it all. I watch Tubalcain, Abom, Keith Rucker, TOT, Steve Summers and others. When I see they have a toy I like, I pause the video, run over to the computer and buy one, and then continue watching the video. This has been going on every single night for 2 years. I've had as many as 18 packages come in one day by UPS, USPS and FedEx. I've gone thru $40,000 so far and I want more. These guys on YouTube are doing more than anyone else in the world for developing interest in manual machining. There are people in countries that you have never heard of wanting to learn and learning machining from them. And to answer your original question, I have bought 3 dividing heads, a Cincinnati, a K & T Astronomical and a Chinese. I've even used them. That was fun. And I would like to thank PracticalMachinist for having this wonderful website. Have a nice day guys. And thank you for being on this website and helping people. The accumulation of knowledge on this website is beyond belief.
Looking around at new, mostly imported small dividing heads, it seems they are all made with B&S 7 tapers. Why not 5C, which is so much more common in shops?
"Some" but not all of the import heads are still using the B&S tapers. In fact the sales literature for the specifications of the heads may not be current to what they actually are. My Tai. built Vertex universal head was listed by the dealer as having a B&S taper when I bought it. It's not, for mine they used a MT 4 in the spindle taper. VERTEX-MILLING-GRINDING-TOOLING-CNC-LATHE-GRINDER Those equipment dealers don't always update there specifications when changes are made. Even less so for the cheap as possible off shore tooling since they usually don't give a damn about the end user anyway. I'd certainly agree that 5C would be the obvious and much better idea. For my 10" (approx.) swing head there's not enough meat left in the spindle to go to the 5C without adding a large extension to the spindle nose and you still wouldn't have the full through the spindle capability that the 5C can hold. To do that you'd have to increase the spindles diameter, then increase the bearings to use it, then totally redesign the head casting to take the larger bearings and spindle. But tbh they also need to redesign all these heads anyway and start offering anything that's better than the threaded spindle nose. Yes they work and have proved that for a hell of a long time. There's obviously much better spindle mounts now and have been for a very long time. When was the last time anyone saw a new industrial sized and quality lathe being made today with a threaded spindle nose? With CNC I doubt any manufacturer sells enough new manual DH's to justify a re-designed head. So it's logically more than doubtful any of this will ever happen.
Where I am it's a machine tool desert or I would have looked for a complete and very good condition original B&S universal head or the same manufactured by many others. Where you are it shouldn't be too tough to find a good condition small North American made DH that's within driving range to closely inspect it in person before buying. Some of the non Vertex Chinese made smaller heads than mine that I've seen in semi local tool dealers looked like absolute crap. If there that bad on the outside you can bet the internals that are the important part are even worse. Buying a cheap inaccurate DH is pretty much pointless since it's accuracy of dividing is what your buying one for in the first place. Vertex sure ain't and never will be equal to a B&S head, but there about the minimum I'd settle for if buying new.
But Indian and bottom of the barrel Chinese made tooling doesn't get through the door to my shop.
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