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What is the efficiency of an ICE?
A gas engine, about 20 percent. if it isn't idling, when it is zero percent efficient
A BEV runs about 60 percent efficient[grid to road]
And a power plant runs between 35-40% fuel-to-grid. And the grid has losses too (we'll call it 10% here, but 8-15 is common).
0.38 * 0.90 * 0.60 = 0.205
Po-tay-to, Po-tah-to.
The potential for benefit is in future development (more room to grow for BEVs in general) and use of renewables, which is still the minority of power used for most folks.
I'm not totally against the idea of driving a BEV, but at this time they do not outperform ICE in enough ways to justify their expense. In my opinion.
shall we go back to the well and figure out the total energy usage cradle to grave?
I don't think it will look any better for ICE
Better go back to the coal mine for the BEV also...... level the playing field....
Truth is, they pretty much all suck. Global cost of PV panels, global cost of a wind turbine (that actually produces about 1/8 of its nominal power rating), etc.
The new breed of internal combustion engines are a lot more efficient than the old ones. Mazda is claiming 56% on the skyactiv-3, Toyota has an 2.0L engine that beats 40%, AMG has developed engines that hit or beat 50% thermal efficiency.
Technology is not standing still...
Moving the goalposts? We weren't talking about MPG, we were talking about thermal efficiency.End of the day, not near that, at all
Skyactiv 27 mpg city, big woop
,,,What is the efficiency of an ICE?
A gas engine, about 20 percent. if it isn't idling, when it is zero percent efficient
A BEV runs about 60 percent efficient[grid to road]
Moving the goalposts? We weren't talking about MPG, we were talking about thermal efficiency.
Mazda:
Mazda's 'Skyactiv-3' Engine Could Be As Clean As Some Electrics With 56% Thermal Efficiency
Toyota:
Toyota Develops World's Most Thermally Efficient 2.0-Liter Engine - The Drive
AMG:
Mercedes F1 engine is a true modern marvel | Get the latest car news, car reviews, auto show updates, and racing news from Autoweek. News for the auto enthusiast.
BS.thermal efficiency is MPG[and there is no 'thermal efficiency for BEV so more BS]
it is you who move the goalposts
future tech vs now EVs
My little Hyundai Accent with a 1.6L and manual transmission gets 35 mpg in the worst weather, closer to 40 in the summer, if you don't drive like an idiot. Not as good as an EV, but way cheaper.
BS.
Thermal efficiency is the ratio of heat to work produced.
MPG is miles per gallon, and it is vehicle specific. You put the same engine in a truck or a car, the fuel mileage will vary. The efficiency of the engine is the same, but it takes more work to move the truck.
The links I posted are not "future tech" they are here today.
Moving the goalposts? We weren't talking about MPG, we were talking about thermal efficiency.
Mazda:
Mazda's 'Skyactiv-3' Engine Could Be As Clean As Some Electrics With 56% Thermal Efficiency
He says IF they can get to 56%, not that they have achieved it.
Bill
Sorry to inform you but Toyota has been using that 2.0L engine in cars since 2018....and read your posts, not one is a production engine
you are trying to compare current production vehicles with research projects
The M20A engine family is an inline-four engine series that was first introduced in 2018 for the E210 series Corolla.
M20A-FKS
The standard version with 13.0:1 compression ratio achieving 40% thermal efficiency.
Applications:
2018–present Corolla (MZEA12)
2018–present C-HR/IZOA (MAXA10)
2018–present RAV4 (MXAA54)
2018–present Lexus UX 200 (MZAA10)
2019–present Camry (MXVA71)
Yes, it is not available right now- that's not the point. IC engines are getting MUCH better. The 20% efficiency for ICE prev stated is a thing of the past. No car maker is going to introduce a new vehicle with that generation of technology....he says if they can get to 56%, not that they have achieved it.
Bill
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