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Why are horizontal band-saws so expensive?!

wheelieking71

Diamond
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Seriously! Why the hell is a decent saw worth so much damn money. Just a plain, manual, saw (high quality).
I need a saw. But, everything I look at, that is not worn out, is $5k and up, for a dang saw.
A guy can buy a running Fadal VMC for what some are asking for a freaking saw :nutter:
 
Put a complex computer control on all band saws -- and make it so they won't run if a $3000 board goes out -- and used saw prices might come down?

Seems to me it's just supply and demand. A good saw is a money maker, fastest way to remove material, and other guys want the same saw you do.
 
It may be because a good bad saw in invaluable to a machine shop, but they receive zero attention in terms of maintenance, cleaning, adjustment, correct repairs, etc. So, you get cream puffs that bring crazy prices or junk that should be turned into razor blades.

Often you can buy a really decent automatic saw for the same or less than a manual. When I was looking a few years ago I found my Amada HA-250 for about the same price as a Do All or Ellis manual saw. But, the Amada was in a different world.

The Amada had full auto cycles, but could still run a single cut for onesy twosy work. Plus it had a real vise that gripped the part on both sides of the blade with constant hydraulic pressure. It used 1" blades with carbide guides and would cut dead square. I often just deburred the cuts and shipped the parts without machining the ends to clean them up. It had a really nice infeed table and hard pads in the vise jaws that would never wear out. Many of them have chip conveyors and the coolant systems are much better than manual saws.

The only drawback to the auto saw was that you could not grip a part smaller than 1" or so. The cut smaller stuff you had to use a spacer between the jaws.
 
Used machine sales are just a mystery. I bought a twin column semi automatic saw at an auction, found it too big for my shop, so put it on CL. A couple days later a guy and his wife show up, pay what I'm asking (WHAT?) and take it away.
I've sold a few lathes and it seems like everyone wants to get it for nothing. BTW the guy phoned later and said the $2000 saw was doing wonderful service. Another first.
 
Seriously! Why the hell is a decent saw worth so much damn money. Just a plain, manual, saw (high quality).
I need a saw. But, everything I look at, that is not worn out, is $5k and up, for a dang saw.
A guy can buy a running Fadal VMC for what some are asking for a freaking saw :nutter:

Have you ever used a crappy saw? Not saying a new/good one are worth gold, buuuttt, a crappy saw sucks. :( and what a time sink fiddling around when the blade pops off, or sticks, or cuts too far out of square...
 
Have you ever used a crappy saw? Not saying a new/good one are worth gold, buuuttt, a crappy saw sucks. :( and what a time sink fiddling around when the blade pops off, or sticks, or cuts too far out of square...

Ohh yea! I've been there! Place I used to work.......most everything we made started as 3"-9" 8620 round. Cut 1.5" - 8" long.
He had the crappiest little jet saw. I spent more time effin' with that stupid thing. Hence my respect for the value of a "good" saw.

I'm wishing I hadn't sold my old tank of a saw right now. But, it was a beast, and a workout to operate.
Looking for something a little more ergonomically friendly.

About 6 months ago, this popped up on the list, and I immediately went to purchase it.

scammer.jpg

Put it on my trailer, handed him $700. And he says: "where is the rest of the money?"
Freaking asshole wanted $3k for it. Says he had it listed for $3k. But, as soon as I said I was coming he deleted the add.
Imagine his surprise when I whipped out a screen-shot. Regardless, short of just driving away with it (I should have!) he wasn't letting it go for $700.
Been looking ever since. There is nothing around here.
 
Often you can buy a really decent automatic saw for the same or less than a manual. When I was looking a few years ago I found my Amada HA-250 for about the same price as a Do All or Ellis manual saw. But, the Amada was in a different world.

Yea, I've been noticing that. But, again, most of what I am seeing looks used up.
And, nothing local. Not sure I want to travel to inspect a band-saw! I've spent $50k on a VMC that I wasn't willing to travel to inspect (wont make that mistake again!)
 
I have a friend who makes anvils. Now, obviously, an anvil is an incredibly simple tool. Yes, there is some machining, and some heat treating. Patternmaking. but compared to a bandsaw, its just a dumb lump of steel. (His are cast 8640 Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel)
And his current costs, to get a decent alloy of steel cast and heat treated are well over five bucks a pound.

Compare this to the complexity of a machine tool, which a saw is, which is expected to have accuracy, moving parts, electricity, coolant pumps, sumps that dont leak, hydraulic downfeeds, and a bunch of parts you have to buy.

How could a saw cost as little as new ones do, is my question.
At a measly five bucks a pound, a thousand pound saw at five grand is a deal.
 
I scored a really sweet 14" horizontal saw from HGR... obviously HGR is always a huge gamble, but if you are smart with it can yeild some great deals.
 
It may be because a good bad saw in invaluable to a machine shop, but they receive zero attention in terms of maintenance, cleaning, adjustment, correct repairs, etc. So, you get cream puffs that bring crazy prices or junk that should be turned into razor blades.

Often you can buy a really decent automatic saw for the same or less than a manual. When I was looking a few years ago I found my Amada HA-250 for about the same price as a Do All or Ellis manual saw. But, the Amada was in a different world.

The Amada had full auto cycles, but could still run a single cut for onesy twosy work. Plus it had a real vise that gripped the part on both sides of the blade with constant hydraulic pressure. It used 1" blades with carbide guides and would cut dead square. I often just deburred the cuts and shipped the parts without machining the ends to clean them up. It had a really nice infeed table and hard pads in the vise jaws that would never wear out. Many of them have chip conveyors and the coolant systems are much better than manual saws.

The only drawback to the auto saw was that you could not grip a part smaller than 1" or so. The cut smaller stuff you had to use a spacer between the jaws.

Yeah " Amada " are good saws.

Best one I ever worked on was a German " Kasto ". That had all the bells and whistles. It had a little revolving wire brush to clean the blade as it was running. Chip conveyor. Coolant to both guides and the work. Contra rotating bar carrier. Variable force on the vices. Repeating shuffle up of the automatic bar feed carriage. You name it the Kasto had it. Superb machine. You could a hundred pieces and they would all be to within plus or minus 0.005"

When I was installing it the installation diagram wanted it installed with a 1 degree slope towards the blade longitudinally and a 3 degree slope downwards from front to back.

Any smart Alec's able to figure out why ? It was typical German attention to detail.

Regards Tyrone.
 
I have a friend who makes anvils. Now, obviously, an anvil is an incredibly simple tool. Yes, there is some machining, and some heat treating. Patternmaking. but compared to a bandsaw, its just a dumb lump of steel. (His are cast 8640 Nickel/Chrome/Moly steel)
And his current costs, to get a decent alloy of steel cast and heat treated are well over five bucks a pound.

Compare this to the complexity of a machine tool, which a saw is, which is expected to have accuracy, moving parts, electricity, coolant pumps, sumps that dont leak, hydraulic downfeeds, and a bunch of parts you have to buy.

How could a saw cost as little as new ones do, is my question.
At a measly five bucks a pound, a thousand pound saw at five grand is a deal.

Volume. How many anvils is your buddy having cast?
 
Tyrone, the German's couldn't have been making the coolant drain easier with the tilt? Had to be something more... Sophisticated? :-)

L7
 
Tyrone, the German's couldn't have been making the coolant drain easier with the tilt? Had to be something more... Sophisticated? :-)

L7
I would say to make it safer and easier to load. You don't want a 6" bar of steel rolling off the infeed table and landing on the operator's toes...

@OP- keep an eye out for a Kysor/Dake/Johnson JH10 on your local CL. They come up pretty often around here for not too much $$. I picked up a clean one with about 15 new blades for $800.

I use my cold saw a lot more than the band saw- for cutting up smaller sizes they can't be beat and have a small footprint too.
 
Volume. How many anvils is your buddy having cast?

he only does a couple hundred a year at most. but foundry costs for iron dont go down that much with volume.
but bandsaws, especially big industrial ones, are hardly a big volume consumer item. Do-All probably only makes a few hundred a year, and that would include a wide range of machines. Amada is much more known for its half million dollar turret punch/ laser machines, and, again, its not like a production line that runs off 1000 a day.

All machine tools are low volume, high cost products.

Haas is the biggest manufacturer in the USA of machine tools- and they made around 13,000 machines last year, and that was probably 50 different models, if not more. There are certainly some Haas machines they only make ten of in a year.
Same thing with bigger bandsaws- even the biggest companies in the world may only make a few of certain models every year.
I have seen Amada slabbing bandsaws, like their VM 3800, which will take a 6 ton workpiece, in action- amazing machines, but there is certainly no volume discounts on those- if they sell 2 dozen a year, globally, I would be amazed.

Certainly, there is volume discounts on the 4x6 chinese bandsaws- and chinese government subsidies. Because even those POS should cost more than 2 or 3 hundred bucks.

But new machine tools cost a minimum of five bucks a pound pretty much anywhere, and, often, much more.
 
Anybody have experience with a Roll-in horizontal saw? Roll-In Saw HS1418 Swivel Bandsaw

I've spent my fair share of time at the classic Roll-in vertical saws. Great machines.
Did not know, until google just informed me, they make horizontals as well.

I looked at the link and it says hydraulic for feed adjustment. Isn't that normal for horizontal saws that aren't on the twin column setup? I don't see how a 'roll-in' saw would work on a hori being they (vertical roll-in) just use weight that literally rolls...?
 
Roll-in is the name of a company, as well as a description of a product.

Like how Apple makes cell phones. What's a cell phone got to do with fruit?
 
...About 6 months ago, this popped up on the list, and I immediately went to purchase it.

View attachment 244956

Put it on my trailer, handed him $700. And he says: "where is the rest of the money?"
Freaking asshole wanted $3k for it. Says he had it listed for $3k. But, as soon as I said I was coming he deleted the add.
Looks like the same saw MSC lists for $2500.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/00919522

I have a buddy that has one of the Jet saws like this one:

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn...MI49Gpvoav3wIVkPhkCh3KBA2EEAQYBCABEgIoavD_BwE

He's got a lot of cutting out of that saw,
 








 
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