Winch to roll 10,000 lb machine onto level trailer ?
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  1. #1
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    Default Winch to roll 10,000 lb machine onto level trailer ?

    What would be the minimum 12 volt drum type winch I might need to pull a small 10,000 lb VMC from concrete floor building onto wood floor trailer ? VMC will be on really nice machinery skates with steering capability (GKS Perfekt) and the dock is the same height as the trailer, so not much incline aspects....but I know from experience, the skate wheels will sink into the yellow pine trailer floor just enough to make pulling on the trailer much harder than pulling on the concrete.

    Could use a come-a-long of course but that is so slow and tedious. Machine is within 6 feet of the dock opening already. And yes, the end of the trailer would be supported underneath so it won't sink, and yes it is flat all the way, and yes there would be a nice dockplate to span the two and yes I have toe jacks, etc, etc... (I've done this sort of thing before....but in the past there was a small forklift around to push the machine at least part way on the trailer...not so here...and no, I don't want to rent a forklift)

    Just need to know the cheapest possible drum winch for this as I might never use it again..so even Chinese and used would be considered here. Time frame...middle of next week...but could delay it further if necessary.



    Actually come to think of it, the winch could even be 110 volt AC if the deal was right...could use long extension cord to the guy's building. I wonder if something like this would work ? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...5486_200455486 ?

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    I pulled a 6000lb lathe onto a tiltbed with a warn 3700 and a snatchblock. It didn't have any trouble, even at the start with the bed fully tilted.

    So I would think something with around a 5k capacity would work fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulva View Post
    I pulled a 6000lb lathe onto a tiltbed with a warn 3700 and a snatchblock. It didn't have any trouble, even at the start with the bed fully tilted.

    So I would think something with around a 5k capacity would work fine.
    Without stating what the lathe was rolling on and what the tilt trailer floor was made of, that doesn't tell me much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Without stating what the lathe was rolling on and what the tilt trailer floor was made of, that doesn't tell me much.
    wood on wood, dry, pressure treated under the lathe, deck of trailer was white oak.

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    Could you lay down a couple strips of 1/8" thick steel on the trailer for the rollers to roll on, so they don't sink into the pine? If you could, it would roll with little resistance. If it were me, I'd look into that ($25) and a come-along (free) before I coughed up for even a cheap winch.

    I can imagine 10K lbs on those small rollers really sinking into pine.

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    While I despise the phrase 'outside the box' I try to think that way as often as possible, saves me lots of time and money.

    How about a block and tackle? You'd possibly have to stop and reset it once or twice depending on the distance and drum capacity, but you could get away with half, quarter, or 1/8th the winch you'd need for a straight pull, likely enough to make up for the pulleys needed. Hell, set it up right and skip the winch overall, another guy and I used setups like this to move boats around dry-dock at a marina I ran. me with a bad back and a 19 year old pudgy kid could move 19-27' boats around a poorly maintained asphalt deck like nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    Could you lay down a couple strips of 1/8" thick steel on the trailer for the rollers to roll on, so they don't sink into the pine? If you could, it would roll with little resistance. If it were me, I'd look into that ($25) and a come-along (free) before I coughed up for even a cheap winch.
    Not a bad idea but not sure where I'd get said steel strips...no supply houses for that sort of thing near here. Ironically this trailer (gooseneck, 20,000 lb capacity) has twin H beams exposed on deck like a semi trailer but the builder (many years ago now) didn't follow my instructions to have the steel at the same height as the wood, such that the H beam surfaces are still 1/8 to 1/4 inch below the level of the deck surface, so it still would be rollers on wood really.

    Regardless, those H beams are what I need to line up the two back skates with as otherwise a skate can break thru the wood ! Had that happen once and almost turned over a $50,000 sinker EDM !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trip59 View Post
    While I despise the phrase 'outside the box' I try to think that way as often as possible, saves me lots of time and money.

    How about a block and tackle? You'd possibly have to stop and reset it once or twice depending on the distance and drum capacity, but you could get away with half, quarter, or 1/8th the winch you'd need for a straight pull, likely enough to make up for the pulleys needed. Hell, set it up right and skip the winch overall, another guy and I used setups like this to move boats around dry-dock at a marina I ran. me with a bad back and a 19 year old pudgy kid could move 19-27' boats around a poorly maintained asphalt deck like nothing.
    Possible even a typical hand crank boat winch would work but would have to make a custom mount for it, which would be a PITA. Got any (web link) examples of new block and tackle assemblies in capacity you guys used ?

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    We were using Ronstan blocks and New England yacht braid. The hardware came off a 35' sloop. What I'd do, in the situation you're in, stop by or call a local marina, see if they've re-rigged anything recently. Some of the running rigging coming off of moderate sized vessels can handle loads upwards of 2-3000 lbs without batting an eye.

    I used to order all our gear from Port Supply, which is the corp/gov side of West Marine. New gear might run you $100+ but a pair of blocks and a length of line wouldn't take any room to store and could be used when no power is around.

    If you go used, I wouldn't consider using it for any overhead work, the only things we used for overhead were new, out of the box, extras.

    Westmarine.com and search Ronstan or Harken, both are good names, but if it were me, a couple calls or a drive to a marina might get you some for free or a 6 pack. Oddly, I hit Amazon.com and they had some non-sailing rigging pretty cheap too, but I didn't see load ratings on the first few I looked at.

    EDIT: I just looked at yacht line and even the 3/8 NE braid is rated at 5100lbs. IIRC we used 1/2" just because it was easier on our hands and that was the size of the sheaves, but the line doesn't have to match the sheaves, it can be smaller than they were made for.

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    You want cheap? Does the tow rig have duallies? Bring a floor jack, some wheel chocks, and some good rope. Use one of the duallies as you winch spool. Should be fun to watch at the very least.

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    I have that Pullzall 120VAC. I used it to winch up all the machine pieces out of my basement shop.
    It was a pretty steep incline, friction of the ramp, maybe 900lbs was the heaviest, I split the HLV-H copy in 2, base and top, whatever that weighs. There was a few times I redlined it and pretty much stalled when getting to the top of the stairs where it was losing its strength because of the angle change, so a bit of human intervention was required there.
    All that to say... I'm not sure if it will do what you need, 10,000lbs is a fair bit of weight but since its flat maybe a 1000lbs is enough to do it, adding a pulley would double that easy enough or buying 2 of them since they're pretty low cost.

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    Great 'come-along' here and easier to use than the china
    imports. 2 or 3 ton.

    The Wyeth-Scott Co. - portable winches | cable puller | come along winches

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    You've got a week, why not get the 1/4" steel strips for the trailer I beams and now that's one problem fixed permanently? You could drill and plug weld them or have someone do it, even loose for this one trip won't move under machine. I'd use a heavy come along but I kind of like that Northern tool winch, You can use it in the shop and throw it in the truck with an extension cord or two when on the road. Almost everywhere you go must have power, and you
    probably have a heavy come along with you anyway.

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    I was interested in that and googled around a bit, looked at reviews. Seems there's more than one version from Warn, some are real crap, some aren't bad. Minor differences in model # differentiate them IIRC. Looks real handy to me if it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoBoy View Post
    Great 'come-along' here and easier to use than the china
    imports. 2 or 3 ton.

    The Wyeth-Scott Co. - portable winches | cable puller | come along winches
    I have one similar to that already (except mine has aluminum cast body)....way nicer than the typical cheap come-a-longs. But still, slow go and tedious compared to pressing a button.

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    Default Winch to roll 10,000 machine onto a level trailer..

    Almost any winch will pull this load on the level, on some kind of wheels.
    The problems I see is if you get something jammed. But that would give you trouble with any type of winch.
    Do it with a chain fall and an extra chain to tie it off from time to time while you rest and reset the chain fall.
    When you are loaded, use the chain to secure the load and pull it tight with the chain fall..
    then rest all the way to your destination for unloading.

    If the load is on wheels, make sure you are pulling up hill if their is any incline....Consider what to do in case of a runaway load.
    Respectively....
    Walt...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt @ SGS Inc. View Post
    Almost any winch will pull this load on the level, on some kind of wheels.
    The problems I see is if you get something jammed. But that would give you trouble with any type of winch.
    The big unknowns are the slight incline (I said level but there will probably be a slight upward incline..not sure yet...can actually adjust that somewhat once machine is on trailer via raising or lowering hydraulic jacks that support end of trailer) and just how much the skate wheels will drag once on the pine floor. I've done this before with come-a-long and you don't really see the skate wheels sink in the wood at all...but they definitely do.

    Even 2,000 lbs on a hardwood box truck floor moved via manual pallet jack is difficult, compared to doing the same thing on concrete.

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    I also have a Warn pullzall. rated 1000#pull single line. I've used it to pull and lift machinery in my shop. works well.

    Warn Industries - WARN Corded PullzAll

    Comes in AC and DC models.

    Dave

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    I may not be current on your material handling inventory, but if you have an electric-drive pallet jack, you could either A) load it with something heavy that's lying around the guy's shop, and then push with it, or B) substitute it for one end of the skate system.

    Is there room in the shop for somebody's pickup? A 4x4 bearing on the truck's trailer hitch, and blocked up to hit the appropriate place on the moving load could substitute in the forklift scenario. Good communications is key, of course.

    Heavier-gauge (structural) steel studs could be used for your steel tracks, too.

    Chip


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