WTF is a 'phenolic stabilzer' fluid?

I have this shelf of shop fluids. Having absorbed several shops along the way (estates of friends) I have quite a few. I was sorting them out today and came across a jug of Trim TC143. Looking it up, it says it's a phenolic stabilizer to be used with other Trim fluids.

Can anyone translate this for me?

If it's something I wouldn't want and hard to get rid of to someone who would, how should it be disposed of?

metalmagpie

Here's your answer.

Cutting & Grinding Fluid Additives - Master Fluid Solutions™

Tom

https://pdocs.masterchemical.com/mcc/docs/db-docs/pdf_di/TC_143.pdf

It's used to revive Trim Sol - machining coolant

Do you pay a service to take away your used coolant?
Throw it in.

Well, I found the MSDS:
Member Login Page

Not sure if anyone else will be able to see it, though.

And all it says about disposal is "dispose in accordance with all regulations" blah blah.

I won't dump it in the lake, but I might dig a hole and pour it in.

metalmagpie

metalmagpie said:

I have this shelf of shop fluids. Having absorbed several shops along the way (estates of friends) I have quite a few. I was sorting them out today and came across a jug of Trim TC143. Looking it up, it says it's a phenolic stabilizer to be used with other Trim fluids.

Can anyone translate this for me?

If it's something I wouldn't want and hard to get rid of to someone who would, how should it be disposed of?

metalmagpie

Click to expand...

Phenol is a biocide. A poison. As are many of its compounds. We hear "phenolic" and ass u me the plastics MADE with it.

"Should be" a hydrocarbon solvent, generally extracted from coal and similar to Toluene in viscosity. Explosives are made by nitrating each of them TriNitroToluene - TNT, and TriNitroPhenol - TNP or "picric acid", used by few others save a resource-desperate Third Reich, Teller AT mines, etc.

Nasty stuff as a military explosive, Picric Acid. Corrosive. Forms unstable corrosion salts that could set-off the landmines as they aged.

What you have isn't that sort of dangerous. Wasn't "nitrated".

Similar to a cut-down and tamed version of Creosote, actually, and should have a similar odour, but faint. "Medicinal", Master Chem called it, because phenol had once been common in antiseptics before California invented cancer and it was discovered that products such as "Woodlife" (pentachlorphenol AKA PCP]) was implicated in reproductive system cancers and such [1].

Got any wooden fence posts to set? Lower risk to yer health than using mist coolants with this s**t in them.



[1] Pentachlorophenol - Wikipedia

Penta ?

So the old time wood preservative (IIRC now outlawed) is being sold by the pint
for adding to coolant ?

Wow....no wonder so many operators have dermatitis issues with coolants.

digger doug said:

Penta ?

So the old time wood preservative (IIRC now outlawed) is being sold by the pint
for adding to coolant ?

Wow....no wonder so many operators have dermatitis issues with coolants.

Click to expand...

Not the same stuff, no. Probably a cousin, same tribe.

Blue-collar worker-bees are "expendables" to some folk, long years, arredy. Coolant ups production. That part can be measured in dollars. Lives, not so much.

Company was kind enough to furnish us an open trough - split longwise from a 55-gal drum - of 10 gallons or so, open, of Chlorothene-NU for warshing the coal dust and Zinc-Chromate paints off our chip-burn zitted bare arms. Even dumped the sludge and cleaned the trough about once a year.

Right considerate of them, yah? Our shop that different? I doubt it. Folks here have seen some real s**t.

In 'nam, we string-mopped the deck in the Oxygen plants with trichlor. Also had the house-mouse rinse our fatigues in it to make sure grease or body oils didn't flash us up like a flare if pure Oxygen hit us.

IIRC, we used at least 3 X 55 gal drums of trichlor in 12 months. Then they go and ban those fractional-ounce bottles of it sold for cleaning typewriters - brain cancer? In white-collar office staff, anyway. We chikn's on the shop floor with a Union card weren't meant to even HAVE a brain after all. Wasn't in our contract.

Worry? Yah. We did, some. Back home about going broke and hungry.

In 'nam about the hazards of making and handling multiple thousands of cylinders of Acetylene & Oxygen in the same area. Worried a tad less about ambushes. IED's. RPG's. F***n snipers. TB. Malaria. Hepatitis. VD. Parasites. Snakes. Road accidents. Field-grade f**kwits. Those were standard issue to all GI's - not unique to the field-mobile industrial gas bizness.

"Broke and hungry" we understood. Burnt to ionized plasma, we understood. "Pink mist" we understood.

"Carcinogen"?

Whom had even ever heard such a word?

thermite said:

Phenol is a biocide. A poison. As are many of its compounds. We hear "phenolic" and ass u me the plastics MADE with it.

"Should be" a hydrocarbon solvent, generally extracted from coal and similar to Toluene in viscosity. Explosives are made by nitrating each of them TriNitroToluene - TNT, and TriNitroPhenol - TNP or "picric acid", used by few others save a resource-desperate Third Reich, Teller AT mines, etc.

Nasty stuff as a military explosive, Picric Acid. Corrosive. Forms unstable corrosion salts that could set-off the landmines as they aged.

What you have isn't that sort of dangerous. Wasn't "nitrated".

Similar to a cut-down and tamed version of Creosote, actually, and should have a similar odour, but faint. "Medicinal", Master Chem called it, because phenol had once been common in antiseptics before California invented cancer and it was discovered that products such as "Woodlife" (pentachlorphenol AKA PCP]) was implicated in reproductive system cancers and such [1].

Got any wooden fence posts to set? Lower risk to yer health than using mist coolants with this s**t in them.



[1] Pentachlorophenol - Wikipedia

Click to expand...

Are you saying this stuff would act as a wood preservative?

metalmagpie said:

Are you saying this stuff would act as a wood preservative?

Click to expand...

It was used for that...now banned almost everywhere.

Don't drink it...or drink the water either.

And why do you imply that TC143 contains PCPs?

metalmagpie said:

Are you saying this stuff would act as a wood preservative?

Click to expand...

Not a very strong one. Still, a phenolic additive that kills biologicals in coolant kills biologicals, period. Wood doesn't get tired so much as it gets EATEN, so yeah - a weak one. Even Creosote isn't all that effective, though.

Link to the MSDS didn't work for me. Dunno if it is (also) halogenated or not, but Chlorination has been common for coolant preservative and life-extender treatments.

Did'yah ring-up MasterChem and ask about disposal already?

Here, I'd not bother as I use a different family of coolants anyway (Houghton Hocut).

I'd just set it aside for the next County-scheduled HAZMAT collection day 17 November, about a mile away, longer drive, sooner. Check your own County website. This stuff isn't radium or the like - just not "nice".

Call it carbolic acid and you'll be fine. Please read the wiki article . Phenol is not known to be carcenigic and is still used medicinally as a topical analgesic, i.e., sore throat numbing sprays. Once again proving something I've noticed many times on internet fora - there is often a direct relationship beween the volume of an individuals posts and the amount of bs they contain.

MrStretch said:

Call it carbolic acid and you'll be fine. Please read the wiki article . Phenol is not known to be carcenigic and is still used medicinally as a topical analgesic, i.e., sore throat numbing sprays. Once again proving something I've noticed many times on internet fora - there is often a direct relationship beween the volume of an individuals posts and the amount of bs they contain.

Click to expand...

Call it Rose Water if you wish. Percentage of BS does seem to decline exponentially with volume, yes. Or mayhap it was education and experience?

More to health hazards than "unclassifiable" as to cancer, proven tumours in mice notwithstanding. First, yah have to be able to stand exposure without fleeing the nasty. If yah get past that, then live long enough to develop and exhibit cancer. IF, of course, something faster-moving hasn't taken out yer liver, central nervous system or the like, first.

"Our tax dollars at work":

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents/phenol.pdf

None of those chronic effects look like a great deal of fun.

I accessed the MSD. Nothing particularly dangerous about this stuff. Usual wash your hands....

Contents are confidential (10-20%) and TRIETHANOLAMINE (30-40%). Rest is Other components below reportable levels.

Checked out TRIETHANOLAMINE, It is commonly used as a pH adjuster and surfactant in industrial and cosmetic products such as skin and hair conditioning products.

Can't be too dangerous.

The MSDS is too big to attach here, if you send me your email address, I will send it to you.

Tom

To dispose take it to the local "waste-mobile" that does the rounds or the central hazardous waste disposal in Factoria (OP knows where this is) - all free.

Think you will find its just a additive for coolant so the coolant does not break down when your cutting phenolics which like a few other resins tend to have stuff in them that can cause the coolant emulsion to actually break down.