ebay should institute the 15 min rule

this will STOP sniping...

www.gunbroker.com uses this

if there is a bid within 15mins of the auction closing, the auction is automatically extended 15mins.. and it keeps going....

I am certain some snipers and sniper software will haev fits about this, but i am durn tired of being sniped...

an item (machinery related) went from 78.93 to 305 in 41 seconds, with a flurry of bids...

just plain ole mean

jeffe

We've been through this before, but the highest bid when the auction closes is still the winner. Sniping shouldn't have anything to do with the amount that you bid. A couple of the local online auctions here use the deadline extension rule, and all it does is make everyone a sniper as now you have to babysit the items you bid on to see if they get extended due to last minute bids. In any auction, if you want to own something you have to outbid the other bidders. The end.

Barry, you've summarized very well what we've been thru before on this.

Yep, the irony of someone wanting to add time to keep snipers from sniping is that it then forces *everyone* to be a sniper...wasting your life away chained to the glowing monitor light...

Extending the ending time also allows the fence sitters more time to decide, driving the price even higher.
You could spend hours just waiting for an auction to end. No thanks.

Les

With the excelent ebay proxy syatem a educated and diciplined bidder needs to bid only once . If you have decided how much an item is worth to you and bid this amount then if you are out bid, fine some one else put a hoger value on it then you. If the item is sniped but your value was above the sniper then you still win . One should never bid in an auction without first deciding how much the item is worth to you. The idea that you might get it with one more bid is just silly. Set a max bid it once with a proxy and move on. It is to easy to end up spending to much if you don't decide on a limit in advance

In my opinion,,,,,,NO WAY,,,,,,, would I want the bidding to stay open 15 min, or any time at all, after the posted closing. THat govliquidation site does that, and it can drive you nuts. I had a few items go on and on there for hours after then closing time, one item lasted 4 hours,,,,, never again for me. I just place a bid,,,,and that's it. I don't play their games.

4 negatives... interesting..

compare this to a LIVE auction!

the bidding doesn't end till the bidding ends...

If i CHOOSE to raise my bid, I certainly can...

Of the "no way" camp, how many use sniper software?


oh well, i guess this just pisses ME off, rather than the majority....


jeff

Yea but the live auction doesn't extend for a set time after a bid is placed. When people stop bidding, it is over, depending on the auctioneer that is.

Les

Jeff- The Cowboy's are behind by 4 at the 2-minute warning and they come back to score a touchdown and win by 3 points. Is it a Cowboy victory, or should we extend the game for another quarter since they scored the winning touchdown with less than 2 minutes left? The length of the game is announced way ahead of time, and the winner at the end of the game is the winner, no matter if the other team led most of the game or not.

Same with Ebay. The closing time (right down to the hour, minute and second) is announced 7 days ahead of time, giving you plenty of time to think of an amount to bid. At that ending time, the game is over and the high bidder gets the item being auctioned off.

I love sniping!
Michael

<< an item (machinery related) went from 78.93 to 305 in 41 seconds, with a flurry of bids... just plain ole mean >>

Proxy system sucks because some incremental bidding dimwits cannot stand seeing someone with a higher bid than theirs so they chip away at the high bid until they are the high bidder. . .then they quit.

I too bid what my max is, I snipe at the last 4 sec. The keyboard routine at the last few sec is for pussies

I think the root of the problem is that a $300 item is at $78 with less than a minute to go and the high bidder at that point is thinking he's going to get the deal of the month. After all the bids come in and he's down the bidder list about a mile, the anger sets in. "It's those stupid snipers, they screwed me out of my deal!"

jeffe, sniping on eBay is more like a live auction. Often the high bidder at live auctions is someone who pops in just as the auctioneer is about to yell "sold". And yes it "ends when it ends" but the huge differnce is that happens within seconds not many minutes.

Typical live auction bidding even for a $30,000 item will take less than two minutes from start to finish.

again...

let's be clear

a live auction goes until the bidding ends...

a football game is not an auction...

However, BOTH of the above situations play by the same rules and tactics

snipers...well, it's obvious who thinks it's a grand idea....

and then those that think of fair play

jeffe

Actually, as 90 percent seller and 10 percent buyer on eBay, I would probably benefit from the 15 min thing, as the fence sitters would undoubtedly get off it and bid up my offerings to higher amounts as they sat there squirming in their seats, pondering their checking accounts, glued to the glowing light.

But as a buyer, I would *hate* the concept, would think it totally idiotic.

Jeffe, just out of curiosity, after all these revelations, you *still* think the 15 min. thing is a good idea ??

I think I will keep on sniping, it certainly beats sitting up till three in the morning waitng for an item to finish.
Bid what you think is a price you are happy with and go to bed. Sorted.
Some you win some you lose, thats life.
Phil

<<Proxy system sucks because some incremental bidding dimwits cannot stand seeing someone with a higher bid than theirs so they chip away at the high bid until they are the high bidder. . .then they quit.>>

Is there anybody else here that hasn't figured out that this indicates shilling? Only an idiot would not shill since it has few, if any, drawbacks and increases the selling price, often dramaticaly. So called "real" auctions are all shilled. Sometimes there are even rules that regulate it. As to the 15 minute rule: "Real" auctions don't end until the suckers quit bidding. Why should eBay be any different?

Must be alot of idiots out there, including me, as I suspect 95 percent of eBay auctions, and about 60 percent of live auctions, are *not* shilled whatsoever.

(BTW, my live auction estimate is based on attending *alot* of live auctions and paying very close attention to what's going on.....probably been to more live machine tool auctions than anyone on this board)

The drawback of shilling on eBay, besides the complexity of setting up lots of seperate accounts that somehow had a decent number of feedbacks so it wouldn't be obvious shilling was going on, is one would never know if his shill bid was the last bid. Then you'd be stuck with a double whammy of paying eBay commissions and yet still owning the what you were trying to sell.

I admit it... I snipe. I also admit it... I hate the govliquidation site. I used it once and hated it so much I wouldn't use it again. What does that say? Ultimately I'm a buyer too, and if I don't use the site then the seller is missing out on an increased sale opportunity, right? Oh, just to cover myself... I also do a moderate amount of selling. I'm not a professional though. I'm mainly cleaning out my garage of misc stuff or excess items that I have left over after a consolidation with a "bulk purchase" (like the results buying a toolbox from an estate). Even as a seller I would rather not have the 15 bump-up thing. Why? Because of what I just said about hating the system so much. I'd rather have 500 people snipe in the last 30 seconds than 5 people bid on the whole auction. Sometimes the latter may be better, but I suspect more often it is worse.

Just my opinion.
--Alan

As for Don's shilling comment.... I think I agree with you. Most auctions are probably legitimate for the reasons you state. The big time sellers don't have the time to setup a network of shills and most small time people are like me... they just want to clear the stuff out of the garage. Now, there are some exceptions though. As a small time operator, I would hate to see my Deckel mill sell for $1500 by accident. Of course, the easy solution is to put a reserve on it. I personally hate reserves too, but I wouldn't encourage eBay to get rid of them. I know I have used them on occasion when I was just too paranoid to "risk it". I put the price of reserve in the auction text though. My rationale was that at least then people would know the target mark. I've also played with a higher starting price. Neither is a great way to go though, but it can preserve the marital bliss. No being a business, I can't "absorb" the inevitable loss every so often (the way Reliable definitely does) that gets made up with the other gains (ahhh, the way Reliable definitely does... again! )

[This message has been edited by wrench (edited 04-09-2004).]

<<Must be alot of idiots out there, including me, as I suspect 95 percent of eBay auctions, and about 60 percent of live auctions, are *not* shilled whatsoever.>>

About most eBay auctions, I wouldn't know. About machine tools and the like like, I see evidence of shilling on 75% of the stuff I am interested in. Shilling doesn't have to be heavy handed, in fact, the best shilling stays under the radar. Just an occasional bid when things slow down can get everyone worked up again. Auctioneers will use phantom bidders when they know there is still a dollar on the table. I have seen auctioneers "sell" items to phantom bidders when they didn't want to anounce that an item did not make the reserve. I have also seen them approach the loser and suggest that the winner wants out, will you buy it at your highest bid?

<<(BTW, my live auction estimate is based on attending *alot* of live auctions and paying very close attention to what's going on.....probably been to more live machine tool auctions than anyone on this board)>>

With out a doubt. I am not saying that every item ay every auction is shilled, just that the shills are there, and that they chime in when needed.

<<The drawback of shilling on eBay, besides the complexity of setting up lots of seperate accounts that somehow had a decent number of feedbacks so it wouldn't be obvious shilling was going on, is one would never know if his shill bid was the last bid.>>

Shilling does not have to be complex. Just a call to a buddy to place a bid on my (whatever) at $Xxx. I have seen auctions where one guy will be high bidder at $100 and then someone else bids the item up to $500 incrementally. No one else bids and the item sells for $500. That item would probably have gone for $100 w/o the shill. The seller made an extra $400. Who cares if he has to pay the fees on an occasional item that his buddy ends up having to buy. The seller uses the Second Chance Offer and says he has 2 and the other guy took one, do you want the one pictured? Seller pays the fees. Seller and shill give each other glowing feedback, and everyone is happy. Relist it in a couple of weeks.

<<Then you'd be stuck with a double whammy of paying eBay commissions and yet still owning the what you were trying to sell.>>

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