12 GA From Hell - Page 23
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 23 of 26 FirstFirst ... 132122232425 ... LastLast
Results 441 to 460 of 509

Thread: 12 GA From Hell

  1. #441
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    They got some buffalo there and with pointed bullets like

    Barnes, and speed that's possible, great for bigger game at long ranges

    with good power out at long ranges. And some there go to

    Africa and Asia to hunt biggest game.Ed

  2. #442
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Been busy with 24ga FH and 585HE
    and getting 585 cases made, as many as possible...

    We are now working a bit with 24ga FH and here is picture
    of it with our 585HE case. Both use same bullets/slugs, same
    bore barrels. Main use difference, 24ga FH easy setup in break
    actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.



    Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
    458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
    was pulled out and they wouldn't stay in tight. Sabot was a loose fit
    in 20ga, made for 20ga, but small, so I shrunk the bottom rib,
    fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE. Fits real tight to give
    good resistance for good ignition.



    Here is another 24ga/585 sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol
    bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal ML. With 250 gr bullet in 585
    will go about mach 4.



    Here is easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber
    coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect without being
    too heavy if using that much lead.And coating keeps them quiet, and
    we hold them in with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed


  3. #443
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankunter with his Ruger #1.

    If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide

    next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed




    I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
    extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
    one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
    than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
    on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed


  4. #444
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Here is picture of 100 cases loaded with CEB solid nose bullets
    and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
    or wide hollowpoint. .



    Here is picture of triball loads that fellows like for deer and hogs,
    and just general tear em up fun, with using BPGS seal to improve
    sealing under what are heavier loads. The balls are .600" and
    315gr. each. The wadcup is a TUPRW123 that Precision sells.



    I need a bunch of empty 3.5" 20ga plastic cases.


    Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
    Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like, usually
    set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
    size to 577NE, to 585 Nyati with G&A picture of Ross Seyfreid
    shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
    off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over with recoil,
    to our 585HE the strongest yet.

    The 577NE is an offshoot of 24 gauge caliber paper cases, only they went
    eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
    cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
    577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
    then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
    and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
    of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
    diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
    and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
    and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
    was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
    over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

    Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
    24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
    reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
    stamp the caseheads 24 ga.

    For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
    the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
    reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
    The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
    about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
    We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
    with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.

    Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
    break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
    goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
    Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
    to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
    energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
    gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
    actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
    So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
    .Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

    Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
    and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

  5. #445
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Lawrenceville GA USA
    Posts
    6,180
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    713
    Likes (Received)
    1321

    Default

    "Theres mice balls in my buttstock...!" Another thing I dont think "Woody" would ever say. Interesting tip thanks for sharing.

    Charles

  6. Likes Philabuster liked this post
  7. #446
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Guys asking about using 585 CEB bullet in our 12ga super
    sabot. Here is picture, We just took off the bottom band and couple
    middle bands on the CEB and it fit perfect in our 12ga sabot,
    which uses .575" slugs. Hollowpoint one pictured 700gr in the
    sabot loaded in brass case. Can be used in plastic case with a
    special made hollowed out long roll crimper.



    Getting some more interest in our 585HE.
    An application for our 585 HE is for guys with old military 14.5mm
    PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
    cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
    being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
    like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

    And a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel could get 650gr
    spitzer bullet to about same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
    3 times as much powder. About 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
    Great possibilities for fun shooting. For tactical use in a place
    where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
    steel cases are scarce. 100 of our cases do over 2000 reloads.



    I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns, the
    actions once sporterized are one of the longest for long cases. .
    Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
    cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
    inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
    Ruger 77 handle, the one on the right . Something even a novice
    like me can do.....



    A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
    ones in our 24ga FH. That hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
    to 700gr depending on how much we cut off the back..
    The 24ga FH brass case is nice complement to our 585HE,
    for shotgun only deer hunters that want a .585" caliber,
    and easy to find big bore bullets.... Ed


  8. #447
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
    here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light
    bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
    but a big bang and satisfaction. A 250 gr bullet would go about
    mach 4 with a top load..



    Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
    It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
    sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980". we got a
    bunch of them and so does McGowen.




    Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
    It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a
    hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
    hard as copper jacketed softs pivtured. These in .575'' size would
    work in our 12ga sabot..



    But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
    can be fairly soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
    of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
    Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out.



    Guys experimenting with multiple ball loads in 12ga wadcups, here is a
    way to keep them together group wise.Ed



  9. Likes Philabuster liked this post
  10. #448
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Hi I'm new to this forum but have been following this thread for a while I can see there has been a lot of research and development and a lot of great work on here and information. im looking to reload some 12ga for a savage 212 just wondering what r your thought on slug size to barrel size. the barrel slugs at 0.729 and the slugs drop out the accurate 700grain mold at 0.7315 to 0.732 would this be ok or should I size them down to like 0.730.

    I only have access to adi powders and was wondering anyone have some suggested loads for 3 inch shells

    Any help would be greatly appreciated

    Cheers
    Pat

  11. #449
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    2,205
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    339

    Default

    What is the composition of your lead?

  12. #450
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Mostly wheel weights with about 20 percent lead

  13. #451
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Arizona
    Posts
    2,205
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    339

    Default

    I would at least start shooting them as cast.

  14. #452
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    I think you meant 20% tin, the rest lead.

    They should shoot fine at that size. If you can find ADI
    rifle powder that matches IMR4759, VV110 use them, Use RE17
    if you can get it, If regular one to 1.125 oz hollowbase slugs
    you can use max loads, How much do they weigh?Ed

    Here is picture of our NEF 12ga FH with Hogue Compstock. It has the
    recoiling cam and springs in the hollow butt plus some weght,



    Here is a variety of slugs and bullets that fit in the 12ga dangerous
    game slug, lock on sabot. BPI sells that DG slug.

    .

    There is couple 585 videos on Swann Gunsmithing's Facebook site;
    Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1, that was done in Australia.It was set up
    for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That gun killed the
    first AUS buff, killed by a 585HE, that I posted picture of above. You can
    go direct to the page and click on the videos to watch the test firings..

    https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos


    Here is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI stock, with the
    style of a CZ stock and metal will be finished with a Gun Kote finish.





    Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
    singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we
    adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.
    Enfield in back, you can see it is longer.



    And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
    just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.And the 24hr Campfire
    forum has over a million views of this thread, ..ED

  15. #453
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    They are 700 grain I've found some loads in a book called shooting the British double rifle using ap100 and wsf for subsonic 730grain paradox loads which I'll proberly have a play with. the adi powder I have been looking at are ar2205, according to the burn rate chart It looks to be close to h2227 and imr2227 I was thinking of maybe 65gr for a starting load with magnum primer and 3 inch shell.

    I was having a play with some magtec brass and I think I've seen it mentioned on here about the thin walls aren't that good to use for slugs, I'm not sure if I seen anyone put a fix on here or not but i flaired the mouth of one shell and pushed it over the top of the other shell to sleeve the first inch to inch and half then cut the base of the out side shell off resized it and it's just about right to hold a 12ga slug. I got the idea from the book "the home guide to cartridge conversions" maybe soft soldering the sleeve on might be better any thoughts

    Cheers
    Pat

  16. #454
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Yes soft soldering that sleeve on would work, great idea to
    get a better slug fit. Just using epoxy might do also.
    Guys have lengthened cases that way with good amount of overlap.

    The 12ga FH isn't the first wildcat case built on BMG brass, it was preceded by
    target rounds like the necked down 338 Talbot, the cut off 700 DKT for big game,
    necked down to .416 and . 458, and more, but the following one was way
    before them, in my favorite rifle caliber, for .585" bullets.

    One of first modern era 585 caliber wildcats, since WW2, the 575 Miller-Greiss Magnum,
    was first mentioned in the fifties, It was made from BMG brass shortened to 2.70" long
    and necked up from 50 cal to .585". But actually if cut off first, it would be annealed, necked
    down to hold 585 bullet. Fairly sharp shoulder.

    They rebated the rim quite a ways down to .618" to maybe fit 98 Mauser bolt.
    Maybe used a special hogged out, reworked action. Listed as
    shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about 150gr of ball powder under
    a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter case, where our 585HE holds
    180gr under a 750gr'.

    We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG case.With rim left same as the base
    and would need a BMG or PH sized bolt and action. I'm glad to be a big bore wildcatter,
    and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and new. Years ago when guys did
    big wildcats on BMGs, they took what was available, full length BMGs to rework, and but
    maybe back then they could have used the 3" BMG spotter case, by shortening the neck,
    if they could have found couple barrels full.

    But it takes a lot of work to reform and shorten cases that much like M&G, with the multiple dies,
    multiple annealings, and case trimming and extreme reworking of regular rifle actions,
    which is why I like our 585 case, simple and straight, any regular, long bolt action, or
    falling blocks, break actions, etc, a 585 good for dozen or more heavy loadings,
    and moderate loads, last forever..

    For our 585HE , made it a size, actually new belted size, to fit regular size, long bolt guns,
    (not BMG actions)that didn't have to be used from tripod so to speak, and could be put in a favorite
    gun of many, the Ruger #1, other falling blocks, without taking metal out of the feed trough.
    To get the same and/or more powder space as a cut back, really shortened, BMG case, like M&G,
    wildcatted to 585, or other short cases, we made longer case and worked with guys
    with a group buy, to get a factory run made. A miracle. We thank all gun nuts for the help.

    Here is picture from the great site, cartridgecollector dot net, of the M&G Mag .Ed


  17. #455
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    694
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    124
    Likes (Received)
    208

    Default

    Just picked up a savage 210 with this project in mind.

    Is there any safety reason to not use the barrel that is on there? I was figuring on lead in the buttstock to make up the weight difference, and it sure isn't going to be shot near enough for the barrel heating up to be an issue...

    Just that all the heavy barrel blanks I can find cost more than I paid for the shotgun.

  18. #456
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Sorry to be away so long, Health and money problems.

    Your regular 210 barrel is ok with 3" cases and our 80-90 grain
    loads of IMR4759. But if you go to the real long brass cases
    with real slow rifle powders, you have to get
    heavy barrels. Pacnor makes them, and not cheap anywhere..
    Another matter--- I know it seems like I'm begging for help when
    I ask guys on the net for help at times. . But I really am in a bind.

    That is truth, Our small income disappeared from our farms truck
    garden business as my my knees are shot and can't hardly
    walk, I can't do field work, etc. And the wife's lung condition
    got so bad she can't work, nearly invalid.
    So we finally had to quit that, but were and are
    in debt. We need little extra money to try
    to keep our health fixed up and pay bunch of back bills and utilities.
    As well as needed to pay for traveling to doctors, treatments,drugs, etc.

    Could you all maybe get together with others on these forums
    and kinda take up a collection to help get me out of my troubles and
    debt. Like 10 or so bucks each put into my paypal account as gifts.
    And if you want to mail it, use email below to contact me to get you
    my mailing address.

    The Paypal email is [email protected]

    Best Regards- Ed

    PS-- I really need help. Not a astronomical amount, but fairly fast.
    We never made anything on the 12ga FH, etc, work and research.
    The little coming from sale of our 585 brass, dies,
    barrels, etc, we try to pay to the places, where the money
    is owed, for getting them made..Ed

  19. #457
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Here is picture of a lightweight Barnes bullet in 24ga FH.
    Guys cut the back off of 750gr bullet off to get 500gr weight.



    Here is picture 58 cal Minie slug that's little long on the side for our 12ga
    sabot, with the front of the slug above the grooves swaged to fit in
    sabot. The swaged front third of the slug fits next to the internal ridge in
    sabot and the sabot doesn't bulge out.Just run front into a die
    and punch it back out.




    And some info about 12ga FH and other hopped up shotgun slug loads,
    You know we like to use the rifle, IE slower than shotgun, powders.
    We like to use IMR 4759 for some loads and RE17 for others where
    we have room for larger charges. Those two powders are ignited ok in large
    diameter cases like 12ga, 10ga, 16ga, etc, without needing BMG primers.
    But we have always been looking for easy to ignite powders of the RE17
    type, when cold, that has a speed between IMR 4759 and the RE17.
    RE17 uses different process to put the deterrents in the powder to control
    speeds, which allows much easier ignition, compared to big majority of rifle
    powders with all the deterrent on the outside.

    There are some out there made by Nitrochemie Switzerland, who makes
    RE17, RE26, RE33, etc, for Alliant. It's the ' RELOAD SWISS' brand available
    for those in UK and Europe, They are called RS 40, about same speed
    as RE12, RS 50 & 52, same speed as RE15, RE60 & 62 same as RE17.
    Also one ' Vihta Vouri ' powder called TR140 available over there,
    that Nitrochemie made..

    Many guys can't get IMR 4759 anymore, some can't get RE17.
    I'd like to get some of RS 40-50-52 powders or V V TR140
    into the states, would really be great help for hairy slug load work.
    And guys in UK/EU now can load some real hairy, slow powder, slug loads,
    even though not having IMR 4759....Ed

  20. #458
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Here is picture of 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from.
    He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and 458.
    There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat.



    Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE, in a MPI stock.
    He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt.



    We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really
    long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or more, if you are
    using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work.
    One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is Stiller Cheytac actions
    made similar, just a newer version. Both actions come in 1.45" diameter
    and a 1.60" diameter receivers.

    And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has
    these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with
    another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single
    stack, center feed, magazine..He has one of our 585 HE reamers on hand,
    we have barrels, cases, and reloading dies..Ed


  21. #459
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Here we kill two birds with one stone so to speak,

    Best case sizer is the MEC Collet Super Sizer and it can double
    as a case holder when we roll crimp. Much better hold than
    the ones made to hold cases for crimping, that cost a lot.
    Save cost of a holder, plus have best sizer around



    Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
    in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock.
    Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
    like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
    The scope rail is a piccatiny type.





    The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
    block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole
    Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

    About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
    sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
    is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig
    with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
    extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
    When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
    the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
    The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
    Just keep on building...Ed


  22. #460
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Brinton, MI
    Posts
    397
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
    a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb
    stock, handles recoil great.Neat looking work... Ed




    About our 2.17" 585 BB case for lever guns, pistols, etc,
    It is made from our 585 case cut back to 2.17" long.
    With loaded length of about 2.8" work in lever guns, etc.
    Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
    One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
    Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
    to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
    that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet.
    Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
    Or rolling block rifles and pistols...Gonna try one in 1887.
    Got first one in one of our guys Greener GP for testing..

    In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
    By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
    Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site.




    Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
    On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
    and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
    weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
    Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
    like a compact UTG sight...Ed



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •