12 gauge 2 3/4 to 3"

moonlight machine · Jan 4, 2021

I have an old 60 years? Savage Fox model B 12 gauge side by side. Nice old gun I've had it since I was 12 so it has done a lot of bird hunting. It is chambered for 2 3/4". Is it safe to machine it out to 3"? does anyone ever do this?

GGaskill · Jan 4, 2021

The SAAMI pressure numbers for 12 gauge shotshells are the same for both 2 3/4" and 3" shells (3 1/2" are higher.) If the 3" chamber does not extend into thinner metal, it would seem to be OK, but the additional recoil may batter the stock or cause other damage.

moonlight machine · Jan 5, 2021

GGaskill said:
The SAAMI pressure numbers for 12 gauge shotshells are the same for both 2 3/4" and 3" shells (3 1/2" are higher.) If the 3" chamber does not extend into thinner metal, it would seem to be OK, but the additional recoil may batter the stock or cause other damage.

If the pressure numbers are the same why will it have additional recoil?

Street · Jan 5, 2021

check how much additional shot is added if any, more than likely more case more of something....shot and or powder

UncleFrank · Jan 5, 2021

I didn't search this extensively but it might have some information:

Fox Collectors • View forum - "Technicana" and Restoration Forum

One thing I did notice in just a general internet search; some of those old guns had 2 1/2 inch chambers. Is your's marked?

moonlight machine · Jan 5, 2021

UncleFrank said:
I didn't search this extensively but it might have some information:

Fox Collectors • View forum - "Technicana" and Restoration Forum

One thing I did notice in just a general internet search; some of those old guns had 2 1/2 inch chambers. Is your's marked?

Mine is marked 2 3/4"

thermite · Jan 5, 2021

moonlight machine said:
If the pressure numbers are the same why will it have additional recoil?

I won't necessarily .. if you don't try to make USE of the available "extra" to push a heavier shot column.

But it's foolish to bother.

Just add another shotgun. Different type.

Or a Dreilling if you want something "interesting".

Move a tab, notched sight rises up from the ramp, front set trigger controls an 8 X 57 JR. JP Sauer & Sohn. Others made them, too.

Has a little more "reach" that the smoothbore tubes!

moonlight machine · Jan 5, 2021

thermite said:
I won't necessarily .. if you don't try to make USE of the available "extra" to push a heavier shot column.

But it's foolish to bother.

Just add another shotgun. Different type.

Or a Dreilling if you want something "interesting".

Move a tab, notched sight rises up from the ramp, front set trigger controls an 8 X 57 JR. JP Sauer & Sohn. Others made them, too.

Has a little more "reach" that the smoothbore tubes!

The only reason I am thinking about it is it is sometimes hard to find 2 3/4". Now days seems like everyone has 3"

thermite · Jan 5, 2021

moonlight machine said:
The only reason I am thinking about it is it is sometimes hard to find 2 3/4". Now days seems like everyone has 3"

16 isn't as easy at it once was. 20 was never on my personal radar.

But 12-Bore, 2 3/4"? White bread.

Still "dominant", and by a massive margin, I am sure.

Been in use for more than just a day or so... must be multiple tens of millions of tubes out there for it, worldwide.

"Hard to find" could be because that's what everybody and his whole fam'ly is scarfing up?

moonlight machine · Jan 5, 2021

thermite said:
16 isn't as easy at it once was. 20 was never on my personal radar.

But 12-Bore, 2 3/4"? White bread.

Still "dominant", and by a massive margin, I am sure.

Been in use for more than just a day or so... must be multiple tens of millions of tubes out there for it, worldwide.

"Hard to find" could be because that's what everybody and his whole fam'ly is scarfing up?

Obviously, I have bought thousands of rounds in the last 50 years. As often as not local retailers now days are out of stock but have 3". Now I could go around buying every box I see but unlike a lot of others I don't do that. So I go without or I have to buy online and I have never done that. Might be easier to bore it a bit deeper.

Joe Miranda · Jan 5, 2021

moonlight - how're you feeling?

thermite · Jan 5, 2021

moonlight machine said:
Obviously, I have bought thousands of rounds in the last 50 years. As often as not local retailers now days are out of stock but have 3". Now I could go around buying every box I see but unlike a lot of others I don't do that. So I go without or I have to buy online and I have never done that. Might be easier to bore it a bit deeper.

Yeah but.. it ain't broke. Just hungry. Why mess so you can utilize "leftovers"?

My ole' 1100 gets hungry, I'll find it 2 3/4".

ELSE ADD ... a 3"-er already built for them.

Uber-reliable semi-auto? I ain't messing with it atall.

Lazy, Iyam.

Cheap, too.

Those thousands of rounds cost more than the shotgun as fired 'em.

An extra tube is better all around if something DOES break.

CAVEAT: We've always avoided "look alikes". To keep ammo out of the wrong pocket, etc.

akajun · Jan 5, 2021

as stated before, yes you can but measure the barrels thickness, youll need to buy or make a barrel thickness gauge. You can see one on Brownells website.
I know Fox had different levels/models Ive never done a fox but did a stevens 311 and a bunch of 870 barrels. CHeaper more utilitarian shotguns tend to have thicker barrels while high dollar tends to have thinner to get the weight down.
While your at it , see about lengthening the forcing cone to 1-1/2" youll get more out of that in terms of shot pattern and recoil reduction than anything else.

Scottl · Jan 5, 2021

I'd say probably not because you are extending the chamber and forcing cone into a smaller cross section.

If it is done the gun should be proof tested before use.

Scottl · Jan 5, 2021

moonlight machine said:
Obviously, I have bought thousands of rounds in the last 50 years. As often as not local retailers now days are out of stock but have 3". Now I could go around buying every box I see but unlike a lot of others I don't do that. So I go without or I have to buy online and I have never done that. Might be easier to bore it a bit deeper.

I'd suggest start reloading. IMO it's a very bad idea to lengthen chambers on an older gun just to suit available ammo. Shotgun shells are very easy to reload and even a simple press does a decent job.

moonlight machine · Jan 5, 2021

Joe Miranda said:
moonlight - how're you feeling?

It's strange, sometimes good and then bad again. Blood oxy in the low 90s. Headache comes and goes. I went for a walk outside, got tired pretty quickly, checked my blood oxy, same as before the walk. the cough seems to be going away, slowly.

Joe Miranda · Jan 5, 2021

moonlight machine said:
It's strange, sometimes good and then bad again. Blood oxy in the low 90s. Headache comes and goes. I went for a walk outside, got tired pretty quickly, checked my blood oxy, same as before the walk. the cough seems to be going away, slowly.

Your blood ox is still low - do you think that might contribute to the headache? Glad you are up and about and able to walk outside a bit. It's been over a month for my friends and they are still not 100%. They still have lingering coughs and shortness of breath. Glad you are making progress!

Toolmaker51 · Jan 5, 2021

akajun said:
as stated before, yes you can but measure the barrels thickness, youll need to buy or make a barrel thickness gauge. You can see one on Brownells website.
I know Fox had different levels/models Ive never done a fox but did a stevens 311 and a bunch of 870 barrels. CHeaper more utilitarian shotguns tend to have thicker barrels while high dollar tends to have thinner to get the weight down.
While your at it , see about lengthening the forcing cone to 1-1/2" youll get more out of that in terms of shot pattern and recoil reduction than anything else.

In agreement, start with forcing cone. Provided there is sufficient wall thickness [per Brownell or equal instrument], the reamer is reasonably priced and doesn't/ cant alter headspace. 2-3/4" is plenty with modern wads and powder in commercial load, even better handloading. Empty and used hulls seem to show up easily, even online auctions.

The physical dimensions of 3" are only part of the issue, bettering THAT with new forcing cone is questionable. Then you'd want 8 or 10 ounces added to buttstock to quell extra recoil. And breech? She has an unkind way of telling her preferences.

moonlight machine · Jan 5, 2021

Joe Miranda said:
Your blood ox is still low - do you think that might contribute to the headache? Glad you are up and about and able to walk outside a bit. It's been over a month for my friends and they are still not 100%. They still have lingering coughs and shortness of breath. Glad you are making progress!

Thanks Joe. By the way I am still using that granite surface plate I got from you, what year was that anyway?

NRDock · Jan 5, 2021

moonlight machine said:
If the pressure numbers are the same why will it have additional recoil?

3" shells will either be loaded with steel shot for water fowling, or heavy lead loads for turkeys.

Steel shot should not be used in old classic doubles as it will probably stretch open your chokes.

If the turkey loads don't break the stock immediately, you'll be OK, because after you realize the first one didn't actually blow the gun up, you won't shoot any more.

12 gauge 2 3/4 to 3"

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Cast Iron

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

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