1954 Browning Superposed Choke Question.
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lambertville, MI USA
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1073
    Likes (Received)
    1125

    Default 1954 Browning Superposed Choke Question.

    I have a Browning Superposed 12 ga shotgun. How do you tell what the chokes are? It doesn't seemed to be marked on the barrels.

    Thanks!

    Todd

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,244
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    I have a Browning Superposed 12 ga shotgun. How do you tell what the chokes are? It doesn't seemed to be marked on the barrels.

    Thanks!

    Todd
    In your case, machine shop & metrology goods available, rig yerself sumthin' to actually measure?

    My 1920's Sauer und Sohn Dreiling, only because me late Dad did the research prior to 1950. Whole BUNCH of markings near the breech, once torn down, but most had to be researched painfully and tediously, pre-internet era.

    If that tracks, the general practice was to apply cylinder bore to the barrel the front, else "first" trigger-pull controlled. That was a "set" trigger on the Dreiling, as it also applied to the 7 X 57 JR rifle barrel. That allowed best use with slugs, ball, or sabots, best aimed and fired barrel..

    Choke the second barrel to optimize for use with shot, as for birds scattering...

    Browning sales literature of the day might help?

    I could be wrong.

    I rely on a Remington 1100 with screw-in shorty-chokes lo these many years instead. Ain't got but the one barrel...

    2 chokes worth

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    263
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    59
    Likes (Received)
    130

    Default

    The older Brownings have symbols, asterisks and etc, to indicate choke. Check page 11 from this old manual:

    https://www.browning.com/content/dam...osedmanual.pdf

  4. Likes SIP6A liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lambertville, MI USA
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1073
    Likes (Received)
    1125

    Default

    UncleFrank,
    Thank you for posting. I looked at the gun and there they were.
    Gun is full and modified.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    7,254
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1821
    Likes (Received)
    3302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFrank View Post
    The older Brownings have symbols, asterisks and etc, to indicate choke. Check page 11 from this old manual:

    https://www.browning.com/content/dam...osedmanual.pdf
    Frank, you have answered a 64 year old question. In the end of 1955 I bought a Browning Superposed. The Browning warehouse was in downtown St. Louis then, so I made a deal with a gun store to trade in my Winchester Model 12, which I hated, on the Browning. I went to the warehouse and tried different stocks to find the drop that suited me and got one in improved modified and improved cylinder with a 26" barrel. The box, which I still have, has a printed label saying full and modified with hand written improved modified and improved cylinder over them. I somehow got the impression that the barrels started out with the tighter choke and were opened up later. The improved modified barrel patterns more like straight modified, but for birds and bunnies it was fine. Unfortunately, the instructions have been lost.

    Anyway, your link solved the question. The barrels are correctly marked, meaning it came from the factory that way.

    BTW, I have cleaned and oiled it, nothing more. One day soon I need to remove the stock and wash the mechanism with a solvent, then re-lubricate, because the oil has gotten stiff. That will be the first time a tool has touched it. You can't beat that for service.

    Thanks, Bill

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lambertville, MI USA
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1073
    Likes (Received)
    1125

    Default

    9100
    My dad bought the Superpoised I have in 1954. Mine also has never had a screwdriver put to it. It has an issue with the single trigger selective fire. The first barrel will fire but when you pull the trigger a second time nothing. When you slide the safety back on you hear a mechanical click then sliding the safety off the second barrel will fire. No doubt an old oil issue. Never felt I was a good enough gunsmith to take it apart and not put a mark on it.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    7,254
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1821
    Likes (Received)
    3302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    9100
    My dad bought the Superpoised I have in 1954. Mine also has never had a screwdriver put to it. It has an issue with the single trigger selective fire. The first barrel will fire but when you pull the trigger a second time nothing. When you slide the safety back on you hear a mechanical click then sliding the safety off the second barrel will fire. No doubt an old oil issue. Never felt I was a good enough gunsmith to take it apart and not put a mark on it.
    Since I haven't had mine apart, I can't say for certain, but typically there is a weight that responds to recoil. I bought a large electric drill from the same era that had little use and never serviced. The grease was about the viscosity of putty. Ours is probably similar. I have never had mine apart for the same reason. It would kill me to burr up a screw. I will have to do it one of these days, if for no other reason than to give the nephew who will eventually get the gun a working one. I have heard that the upscale double rifle makers issue a screwdriver custom made to fit each screw.

    The Browning warehouse is in a town south of here, not far away. I wonder if they would do it? Back then, they tried for 110% customer satisfaction. The little link that drops down when you slide the forearm forward would stick and have to be flipped out. I didn't mind, but they would not let me have the gun until a gunsmith fixed it with a couple of file strokes. If it wasn't perfect, it didn't leave- period!

    Bill

  9. Likes SIP6A liked this post
  10. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    27,244
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    8494

    Default

    I'd caution against taking either of them apart.

    There are solvents specific to the trade that with patience and repetitive cycling, then fresh lubrication should handily sort those issues.

    As to the family member and "eventual" conveyance?

    It isn't a "work for its crust" firearm any longer in your own hands?

    Why wait?

    Wouldn't it be a warmer feeling he could have the use of it and share his experiences and appreciation while you are able to receive the news?

    Just last year onpassed a superb Savage-Anschutz target match rifle as had not had a single round put through it since a stepchild took the Post Championship with it at Fort Belvoir more than 35 years ago.

    I still have the prewar Mauser I was taught to shoot with, 1950, but.. when you actually CARE about whom they are onpassed to?

    Yah can't wait until the last hours to find folk you consider worthy of the legacy, can yah?

  11. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lambertville, MI USA
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1073
    Likes (Received)
    1125

    Default

    Bill (9100)

    I would think that if your local Browning warehouse didn't have a qualified gunsmith on staff they could point you to somebody that specializes in Browning shotguns.

    The other route would be to get a copy of Double Gun Digest If your not aware it's the magazine for all the high dollar double rifles and shotguns. There are always many gunsmiths advertising in there. Being in Missouri I would almost bet there is somebody close to you that would be qualified to work on it.

    Todd

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    263
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    59
    Likes (Received)
    130

    Default

    The Superposed style shotguns use an inertia block to set the trigger for the second barrel to prevent doubling. This link details a Citori but they're similar:

    Servicing the Browning Citori - Special Reports Article

    Personally I would contact Browning for a list of qualified repair shops if I needed any work done on a double shotgun.

    Several years ago I had a Winchester 101 that started doubling and took it to a premier gunsmith local to the area. All it needed was a through cleaning.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    7,254
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1821
    Likes (Received)
    3302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleFrank View Post
    The Superposed style shotguns use an inertia block to set the trigger for the second barrel to prevent doubling. This link details a Citori but they're similar:

    Servicing the Browning Citori - Special Reports Article

    Personally I would contact Browning for a list of qualified repair shops if I needed any work done on a double shotgun.

    Several years ago I had a Winchester 101 that started doubling and took it to a premier gunsmith local to the area. All it needed was a through cleaning.
    A little quibble about the instructions. It says the inertia weight moves back in the receiver. Actually, it would have to move forward relative to the receiver when recoil drives the gun back. My father's 1897 Marlin pump shotgun uses a similar weight to unlatch the slide after a shot. Banging the muzzle on a carpeted floor accomplishes that. I tried it on the Browning with no results. Either the weight is stuck (probable) or I didn't bang hard enough.

    As to the gun "earning it's crust", those also serve who only stand and wait. This one stands and waits with a couple of max load triple Bs, chosen for good penetration if someone gives me that much trouble and losing velocity more quickly than buckshot since I have nothing against my neighbors. We have had a couple of forced entry burglaries in the neighborhood lately and being the next victim doesn't fit in my career goals.

    Bill

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Webster Groves, MO
    Posts
    7,254
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1821
    Likes (Received)
    3302

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Bill (9100)

    I would think that if your local Browning warehouse didn't have a qualified gunsmith on staff they could point you to somebody that specializes in Browning shotguns.

    The other route would be to get a copy of Double Gun Digest If your not aware it's the magazine for all the high dollar double rifles and shotguns. There are always many gunsmiths advertising in there. Being in Missouri I would almost bet there is somebody close to you that would be qualified to work on it.

    Todd
    The Browning site no longer lists a facility near here, they may have closed it. Did the magazine used to be called The Double Gun and Single Shot Journal? A great publication but a bit pricey for entertainment about guns that I can never hope to own. Border's carried it and started sealing copies in plastic bags because too many people were reading it and putting it back.

    Bill

  15. #13
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Lambertville, MI USA
    Posts
    2,550
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1073
    Likes (Received)
    1125

    Default

    Bill (9100)

    I only new it as double gun journal. here is there web sight. The Double Gun Journal - Double Barreled Shotguns, Drillings, Double Guns, Combination Guns, Double Rifles, SxS, Side-by Side Shotguns, Over & Under Shotguns, Vintage Shotguns, Collector Sportsman's Shotguns, Hunting with Shotguns, and Upland Hunting Our borders carried it for a while but Toledo, OH isn't exactly double gun country so it didn't last long.

    I second Uncle frank on contacting Browning to find a gunsmith to work on your Superposed.

  16. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    309
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    I have a Browning Superposed 12 ga shotgun. How do you tell what the chokes are? It doesn't seemed to be marked on the barrels.

    Thanks!

    Todd
    The choke of a shotgun barrel is a relative constriction from the barrel's inside diameter a ways back from the muzzle to what the diameter of the barrel is just behind the muzzle (say, 0.5").

    Here's a tool I use:

    100 STRAIGHT PRODUCTS PROFESSIONAL SHOTGUN BORE MICROMETER SET | Brownells

    OK, so how I'm using this: I calibrate the indicator with one of the calibration sleeves. I put the bore gauge into the muzzle end of the barrel, and let it in about 0.5". I record that. Then I push the gauge deeper into the barrel, until it's about 9" behind the muzzle, I take another reading of the ID of the bore.

    I'll push the gauge into the bore slowly, noting whether or not the barrel is "jug choked" - which I can explain to you. A "jug choke" is how smiths would re-choke a barrel that already had a "wide" choke on the end of the barrel. In a "jug choke" barrel, the barrel bore will open up about 3" behind the muzzle, and remain larger in ID for about 3" more behind the muzzle, then resume the normal ID of the barrel. So, 3" of muzzle choke area, 3" of possible "jug" choke area.

    Then I move the bore gauge about 9" behind the muzzle - far enough back that I'm well past any jug choke. I read the ID there.

    If there is no "jug" choke area, I will then subtract the muzzle choke area (taken 0.5" behind the muzzle) from the 9" bore ID number, and that gives me a constriction amount. Here's a good chart to show you the constriction amounts and what choke designation it gets, both in English guns and American guns:

    Choke Chart

    OK, so as an example of what I'm telling you to do: Let's say that I have an AH Fox 12 gauge gun from before WWI. I measure the 0.5" muzzle choke area at 0.692" I push the bore gauge into the barrel, and I don't see any "jug" behind the muzzle area, so I push it in to 9" behind the muzzle, and I see a bore ID of 0.724. So the difference is 0.724 - 0.692 = 0.032, which according to the chart there on Morris' web site is a "full" choke.

    Now, a word of wisdom for those who say "This is too complicated, all you need is one of these gages:"

    Shotgun choke gage!

    Wrong. Chokes are a relative constriction, not an absolute size. Today's "overbored" shotguns might have a main tube diameter of 0.735", and side-by-side guns from 100 years ago might have tight bores of 0.724" or so, with the "standard" for a 12 gauge shotgun being 0.729. It's the relative difference in bore size that determines the level of choke.

  17. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    309
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    58
    Likes (Received)
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    9100
    My dad bought the Superpoised I have in 1954. Mine also has never had a screwdriver put to it. It has an issue with the single trigger selective fire. The first barrel will fire but when you pull the trigger a second time nothing. When you slide the safety back on you hear a mechanical click then sliding the safety off the second barrel will fire. No doubt an old oil issue. Never felt I was a good enough gunsmith to take it apart and not put a mark on it.
    This can also be an issue with aged springs that have become a bit too light. I've repaired several Citori shotguns with this sort of issue. In one, a maddening search for the problem led to the trigger piston being trapped in a non-round hole in the trigger.

  18. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,192
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3307
    Likes (Received)
    1725

    Default

    I wonder how the market is on superposed Brownings lately. I have a Lighting Superposed and a Belgium made Leige that I have owned for many decades. I haven't kept up with the market on Brownings lately.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •