2" barrel .38 velocity

9100 · Sep 19, 2018

A TV reality program featured a wife who was shot by a deranged husband. He first shot her in the back of her head, then turned her around and shot her again in the forehead. As usual, the program did not give much useful information, but it appeared that both bullets did not penetrate her skull. While they didn't give the caliber, she did say it was a revolver.

I know of two examples, one here in St. Louis. A policeman shot a criminal during a struggle with a 2" barrel .38 and the bullet slid under his scalp and traveled a considerable distance around his head.

The other case was in Sammy "The Bull" Garbano's testimony about trying to kill someone with a 2" .38 and the bullets bounced off. Sammy then said that he got up and ran away. In none of these cases were the victims knocked out.

The ballistic tables I have do not give velocities for such short barrels but I have often heard about how weak they are. Does anyone know the actual velocities?

Bill

Larry Dickman · Sep 19, 2018

No, but I do have an old S&W chief's special, .38 with a 2" barrel. Great gun for shooting around corners.

I did find this;
Snubby .38 Special Ballistics

akajun · Sep 19, 2018

There's a lot of factors at play, bullet design and velocity, skull and bone density , shot angle ,etc
I have personally seen someone shot six times with a 45 acp including a head shot which skirted the skull who the next day was standing on crutches in front of his house drinking beer.
I also have a police friend who got shot with a snubbie 38 with sec ammo got hit in the forehead from 25 yds away and the bullet penetrated and stopped at the back of his skull
He survived but is severly disabled
Its a lot of factors other than velocity

blcksmth · Sep 19, 2018

Many years ago while deer hunting, I shot a deer with a .300 Winchester Magnum from about 75 yards away. While skinning the animal I could not find a bullet hole in the skin where the bullet entered the rib cage. With the skin on the floor I could not find a bullet hole anywhere. Knowing there had to be one somewhere, I finally found a hole in the skin just behind the ear. The bullet traveled just under the skin along the neck past the front shoulder and finally caught a rib and entered the vitals. I have no logical explanation why the bullet took the path it did. I suspect the angle of entry has a major influence on what happens next.

Bob
WB8NQW

Larry Dickman · Sep 19, 2018

blcksmth said:
Many years ago while deer hunting, I shot a deer with a .300 Winchester Magnum from about 75 yards away. While skinning the animal I could not find a bullet hole in the skin where the bullet entered the rib cage. With the skin on the floor I could not find a bullet hole anywhere. Knowing there had to be one somewhere, I finally found a hole in the skin just behind the ear. The bullet traveled just under the skin along the neck past the front shoulder and finally caught a rib and entered the vitals. I have no logical explanation why the bullet took the path it did. I suspect the angle of entry has a major influence on what happens next.

Bob
WB8NQW

Magic Bullet? It's happened before.

Trboatworks · Sep 19, 2018

The energy is getting down there:

Velocity too:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .38 Special Results

kenton · Sep 19, 2018

Trboatworks said:
The energy is getting down there:

View attachment 238269

Velocity too:

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .38 Special Results

As a reminder a 2in barreled revolver has 2 inches of barrel plus the chamber, where as the contender barrel they were cutting down was 2 inches to the breech face.

72bwhite · Sep 19, 2018

velocity would depend much on what powder and bullet used
the old 158 round nose lead, or a 125 or so modern bullet and a quick burning powder.

now for the original TV example could easily have been a 22 or a 32 revolver.
2 inch 32s were quite common in the old days.
both 22s and 32s are known to bounce off thick skulls

some of the modern defensive offerings are tailored to the 2 inchers

Holescreek · Sep 19, 2018

In 1982 (I looked it up) the local newspaper ran a story titled "Ammo looses it's whammo" where a .38 revolver was used similarly with the same results. The gist of the story was that the ammo was very old, possibly corroded (I don't remember all the details) military surplus. The only reason I remember it at all is the title was kind of catchy.

john.k · Sep 19, 2018

Rather than 38 Special,more likely the older 38 S&W,which is considerably weaker....But Webley used to claim that a revolver developed all its velocity in the chamber,the barrel stabilized the bullet,and provided balance.....Some people have very thick skulls....a local man was found walking around with a tomohawk embedded in his skull,his girlfriend had tried to kill him,and couldnt pull the weapon out for a another try.

woodsrider845 · Sep 19, 2018

X them out. Need I say more?

mhajicek · Sep 20, 2018

I know you said revolver, but just for reference my brother in law brought over a .25 auto:

25 ACP Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 11

We shot at an old computer case and it didn't penetrate the thin sheet metal.

9100 · Sep 20, 2018

Besides the individual ammunition, the deciding factor seems to be where it hits. Archduke Ferdinand was killed by a single .32 ACP slug and his wife was killed by a ricochet from the same gun. A fellow who worked in a hospital said the worst gunshot case they had was from a .25 ACP. The bullet bounced off a bone and spun, buzz sawing its way through soft organs. OTOH, when the Daltons tried to rob both banks in Coffeyville KS, The townspeople kept putting presumably .44 and .45 caliber holes in Grat Dalton and he went on walking around. He finally did fall over, but it took a lot of hits.

I personally knew a fellow who was shot with a .45. It was from a second or third floor window, so the trajectory was almost vertical. The bullet hit the front of his right tibia just below the knee, and slid down the bone almost to his ankle. He showed me the tunnel under his skin that it opened up. Apparently it was someone playing around, no antagonism.

I read a book by a man who was a shooting instructor with the 101st and later continued in civilian life. He was adamant that people should use the largest caliber they could handle well. If they couldn't control anything larger than a .22, then they should use a .22, on the grounds that a hit with a .22 beats hell out of a miss with a .44 Mag. He felt that only people who could have intensive military training or had the time and money to practice enough should try to use 9 mm or larger.

Bill

CalG · Sep 20, 2018

Is it safe to say that "most" pistols are sub-sonic a few feet out from the muzzle?

It was fun observing the slugs fly down range when shooting a AR-15 based 9mm, And that was with a 18 inch barrel. You sure can't see the 5.5s...;-)

thermite · Sep 20, 2018

9100 said:
...adamant that people should use the largest caliber they could handle well. If they couldn't control anything larger than a .22, then they should use a .22, on the grounds that a hit with a .22 beats hell out of a miss with a .44 Mag.

VERY much the case!

Side note, as I care not to get into wheel-gun vs self-loader wars, but WHENEVER a firearm has been optimized for shortest overall length, the semi-auto "habit" ("broomhandle" Mausers - nor Derringers, for that matter..need not respond..) of placing the magazine in the grip, and chamber just one cat'ridge length and a tad ahead of it does result in more run of rifled barrel for the same O/A length as a shorty-short wheelgun.

Just the nature of their respective overall shapes.

Any other merits or lack thereof a separate war entirely, "first responder" being a 12-bore Remington 1100 anyway.

What's to "conceal" when in your own house?

GGaskill · Sep 20, 2018

Is it safe to say that "most" pistols are sub-sonic a few feet out from the muzzle?

Not really. Most early cartridge/gun combinations were sub-sonic but 9mm Parabellum is pretty old and it is supersonic, and beginning with the .357 mag and .38 Super in the '30's, supersonic pistol rounds became more common.

thermite · Sep 20, 2018

GGaskill said:
Is it safe to say that "most" pistols are sub-sonic a few feet out from the muzzle?

Not really. Most early cartridge/gun combinations were sub-sonic but 9mm Parabellum is pretty old and it is supersonic, and beginning with the .357 mag and .38 Super in the '30's, supersonic pistol rounds became more common.

.38 Super Auto was more heat than most "moderns" with easily another dozen or so "hot" rounds since are aware it were.

.357, OTOH? Needed that longer case partly to keep it outta older cylinders not up for it.

Otherwise?

ISTR that IF one were to load 9 mm Auto FMJ "ball" projectiles in the wheelgun, the ballistics .357 vs "some" 9 mm X 18 were not greatly different.

Much the same, .38 Special and 9 mm "Kurz".

"Wound channel" OTOH? Softer lead, flat nose vs "neater hole"?

This long-running obsession with ever hotter rounds keeps up, some future "historian" may claim that no one ever died of a mortal firelock, flintlock, or cap & ball firearm wound, must have all been pikes, bayonets, and dysentery, and that the plains Buffalo was laid-low by Mad Cow disease because..

OBVIOUSLY those weapons were far too "underpowered" to have dealt out any serious harm...

Just tell him "Valdez is coming!"

A B-52 is "subsonic" as well, BTW..

CalG · Sep 20, 2018

I ran a 9mm over the chrony,

The difference in ammo was significant. near the ratio of 2:3.

thermite · Sep 20, 2018

CalG said:
I ran a 9mm over the chrony,

The difference in ammo was significant. near the ratio of 2:3.

Gather up ALL the 9 mm's. Bergman-Bayard... Largo... must be 20 or more. Testing oughtta keep you busy for a while. Mind, most of it published a hundred years and more gone to yesterday afternoon.

Not aware of ANY round as ever actually entered the market as never harmed ANYTHING.

Most as became legends simply served in times, places, and circumstances where there wasn't much to compare them to on the occasion. Of course they were the deadliest tool in-hand. If-not-also ONLY.

But just HOW dead was dead, anyway, y'say?

Nitpickers... God must have loved 'em else she'd have given gunpowder the same chemistry as ground black pepper.

CalG · Sep 20, 2018

I'm not sure what you are getting at Bill.

I offer the example as I believe damage and destruction somehow follows energy, and energy follows velocity by the 2nd power.

So it's just a data point. nothing more.

2" barrel .38 velocity

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Hot Rolled

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