Silly looking bolt knobs that hurt your kidneys.

I seam to recall Lambert mentioning a while back that he wanted to put donkey dongs on all of his bench guns so he could work them with his poor old hands. I had to do one today and the angle plate was in the machine so I did it old school, the way the poor folk do it. It is a comercial handle and the thread is 5/16x24 To cut the stub you need either a Norseman or Milwaukee 5/8 x 1 inch annular cutter (trepan cutter). Both of these cut a 5/16 core. The setup is simple. Done in an angle plate use a small aluminum block to get the bolt handle square and a penny to protect the bolt finish from the machine setup clamping bar. I just eyeball the handle straight up and down and clamp it tight. Make sure you measure the bolt where the ball meets the handle before you clamp it in so that you can find the center of the handle from X and Y on your table. A lot of those handles are different measurements so measure the one you are cutting or it won't come out centered. Run your annular cutter at about 150 RPM with a full flood of water or you will burn it out. They generate a lot of heat USE A LOT OF WATER. You should be able to do about 30 handles with one cutter and they are easy to sharpen with a diamond hone. You can cut the threads with a die in an adapter under power or take it out and do it in a vise. Either way works fine. This can be done in a mill or medium weight drill press.

Add Note: I remove the 5/8 cutter and installed a 1/2 inch annular cutter which cuts a .280 core to cut a .100 length area for the die to start on. I don't bother to square off the end but if you wanted to you could just drop in an endmill and run a pass over it. Now that I'm thinking of it I suppose you could just run the X or Y over and take a light cut with the annular cutter to square it. DOH!

Add Note: For those who were confused by the setup and the clamping and emailed me, see the 4th picture.

Reminds me of one of them big shiny belt-buckles that some folks wear that are supposed to distract people from noticing some other glaring shortcoming.

I think it should have some holes drilled through it to lighten it and make it look like a muzzle brake.

Just sayin…

Quick Karl said:

Reminds me of one of them big shiny belt-buckles that some folks wear that are supposed to distract people from noticing some other glaring shortcoming.

I think it should have some holes drilled through it to lighten it and make it look like a muzzle brake.

Just sayin…

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Had a cowgirl friend who called those buckles "tombstones for dead Dicks", but I know a lot of guys with other names who wear them.

A friend of mine always points and says. "Did you loose a bet, or does your Mommy make you wear that so you get yer pants on right side round in the morning ?" That's either a game closer, or one hell of a bar fight.

Love it...thanks for sharing your photos. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, just make sure what ever method you choose it isnt the worst way. Everything else is just fine.

Charles

i guess i'm not the only one that uses pennies as non-marring spacers


not a bad way to do them if you're only doing them now and then.

CBlair said:

Love it...thanks for sharing your photos. There is always more than one way to skin a cat, just make sure what ever method you choose it isnt the worst way. Everything else is just fine.

Charles

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I have a jig to do them in the lathe which is basically a clone of the PTG jig. It works fine but it takes a lot of time to set up and do the cutting and threading. Nine times out of ten, the lathe is busy or set up for something else so I seldom use it. I have heard of people knocking the handles off in them as well, but I attribute that to carelessness. I have also cut them in the mill with a boring head. Another big waste of time. The annular cutter takes about 1 minute to cut the stub and because it pilots itself there is absolutely no shake or chatter when cutting. Its quick and idiot proof, which just happens to be my three favorite things. I also use annular cutters to drill any holes over 1/2 inch in diameter and 1 inch or less in depth. Clean, perfect diameter holes, that look like they have been reamed in half the time it takes to drill them. Just make sure you pour the water to them.

300sniper said:

i guess i'm not the only one that uses pennies as non-marring spacers


not a bad way to do them if you're only doing them now and then.

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When I have a couple or more to do. Providing the handles are the same. I clamp a square block along the bottom of the bolt body using the top of the block to butt up on the bolt handle where its soldered to the body as a stop. That way I can just loosen the nut, drop in the next bolt and and cut the next stub. I also crazy glue the aluminum block to the angle plate. When I do more than one I always cut all the stubs, then put in my die adapter and cut the threads one after the other under power. If its just one I often cut the threads by hand with the die. I don't make a relief cut to start the die if I cut under power. The die holder keeps it straight and ridged. I have a jig I made to hold them but I found that the Remington bolts have so many variants that I am forever changing angles to get them to look purdy so it stays in the cabinet most of the time. It looks a lot nicer if you can get them so that the little hook left from the old bolt knob blends in with the new handle. I advertise two day return on most work so most often its one at a time to meet promissory dates. Because of that I need a setup that's fast and idiot proof.

ChipChaff said:

Had a cowgirl friend who called those buckles "tombstones for dead Dicks", but I know a lot of guys with other names who wear them.

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THAT is a good one!

For someone doing only one of these, don't waste your money on the annular cutters. Buy and learn to use a boring head properly. You can rough most of the handle off with an endmill.

I would do this on a lathe, but that is just personal preference.

I keep a cup filled with pre-1983 pennies in my shop for copper shims. In 1983 they switched to zinc cores and copper plating, which can also work in a pinch.

Yeah at $40.00 to $50.00 annular cutters are well beyond the reach of most hobbyists and you can only do about 30 bolts before you have to sharpen them. Not exactly economically feasible. PTG offers an excellent jig for turning in the lathe and I think they are around $150.00. Like I said some people claim they have broken off handles but if you keep your cuts to .010 inch, you shouldn't have a problem. I have a couple boring heads and I use them a couple times a year. Not for gun work mind you. I started with one of the cheap Asian ones but was very disappointed with it. I later bought a Criterion which I believe is USA made, from one of the major tool suppliers. Was well worth the $300.00 bux. If I ask for .005 inch, that's generally what it gives me. The Asian one seamed to think it was Christmas all the time and liked to surprise me a lot.

Add Note: On the PTG ... My bad! It appears they now sell what they call a slugger kit. A jig that holds the bolt in the lathe or mill which they have always sold. Plus what looks to be an annular cutter of their own manufacture. Its $200.00 for the kit.

Slugger Cutter - Reg Price $89.00
Bolt Handle Threading Jig - Reg Price $125.00 (Kit Price Only $110.00)

My what a novel idea. And all these years I've been doing it in the mill with $50.00 annular cutters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/gunsmithing.htm#bolthandlejig

All said and done....there is an easier way

speerchucker30x3 said:

My what a novel idea. And all these years I've been doing it in the mill with $50.00 annular cutters !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I am a diehard capitalist, but jeez consumers have become a herd of stupid morons.

Quick Karl said:

I am a diehard capitalist, but jeez consumers have become a herd of stupid morons.

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what are you referring to?

300sniper said:

what are you referring to?

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Testicle-looking bolt knobs and over-priced fixtures and tooling for threading the handles…

Quick Karl said:

Testicle-looking bolt knobs and over-priced fixtures and tooling for threading the handles…


I am a diehard capitalist, but jeez consumers have become a herd of stupid morons.

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Karl, I am not sure this is a subject worth getting so worked up over. I mean it is just an accessory, you arent being forced to buy it and you have the right to refuse to do it if someone asked you for it. But to go around calling people stupid and making value judgements on people you dont even know is rude and unnecessary.

I understand if it doesnt fit your idea of style but chill a bit. Even better pick the method that works best for you, charge your customers a butt load of cash for the work and snicker behind their backs if it makes you feel good.

You wouldnt go to a bar and start talking to people that way...or if you were really bored maybe you would? I will watch from the side lines and take bets.

Charles

Quick Karl said:

Testicle-looking bolt knobs and over-priced fixtures and tooling for threading the handles…

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if you shot one of the matches i shoot, you'd probably want one of those "testicle-looking bolt knobs". now if you don't wish to participate in the type of matches i shoot, i have no problem with that. i most certainly won't try to disrespect your shooting discipline what ever that may be, or the set-up that works best for it though.

i fail to see how the ptg tooling is over priced. i certainly couldn't make one cheaper and i doubt many gunsmiths could either if they valued their time at all.

300sniper said:

if you shot one of the matches i shoot, you'd probably want one of those "testicle-looking bolt knobs". now if you don't wish to participate in the type of matches i shoot, i have no problem with that. i most certainly won't try to disrespect your shooting discipline what ever that may be, or the set-up that works best for it though.

i fail to see how the ptg tooling is over priced. i certainly couldn't make one cheaper and i doubt many gunsmiths could either if they valued their time at all.

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I guess if you were threading 10 or more testicle-knobs a day, every day -- I'm sure it's a great fixture and well worth the investment.

It's a free country and I respect your right to have/want one (a testicle knob) and in spite of my sarcasm I don't intend disrespect to anyone - but I also respect my right to think they are the silliest looking things I've ever seen screwed on a gun to make it look cool.

Just sayin...

Quick Karl said:

I guess if you were threading 10 or more testicle-knobs a day, every day -- I'm sure it's a great fixture and well worth the investment.

It's a free country and I respect your right to have/want one (a testicle knob) and in spite of my sarcasm I don't intend disrespect to anyone - but I also respect my right to think they are the silliest looking things I've ever seen screwed on a gun to make it look cool.

Just sayin...

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while some people may get them because they look cool, i assure you that the reason we have them on our rifles has nothing to do with looking cool.

If a man was carefull, and had ever hand ground a tool, I bet he could make his own 2 flute annular cutter from a 2 flute endmill :-). Or turn and mill it out of O-1, sharpen it close with needle files, heat treat it, then stone it sharp :-).

Might be you could rework an old c-bore that had a separate pilot held in with a setscrew too.

Time IS money, but then some people like to twiddle too :-).

An annular cutter that used carbide inserts....hmmmmmm.

Bill