Anyone doing barrels in a Haas TL-1 or -2?
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  1. #1
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    Default Anyone doing barrels in a Haas TL-1 or -2?

    I went to EASTEC with the mission of looking at CNC lathes. My requirements are for a CNC lathe for toolroom work (no significant production, so a turning center is not a good fit), and has a headstock thru hole of greater than 1.25 inches. I want to be able to chamber and fit barrels through the headstock.

    The candidates I looked at are a Dalian with a FAGOR or FANUC control (headstock too wide, methinks), a Haas TL-1 (or -2), SWI Prototrak. I have heard of the Romi, but have not seen one.

    Of all of them, the Haas looks closest to what I want, both in footprint and capability. If there was a CNC'd Hardinge HLVH, or knockoff, with a bigger spindle hole, it would be perfect.

    Any feedback on the Haas as a gunsmithing lathe? Any other possibilities I missed? When I chose a VMC, I ended up avoiding the Haas, so I still have those leftover tendencies (bought a SHARP and love it), but I have an open mind.

    (There is no need for discussion regarding whether CNC is necessary for gunsmithing work, it is necessary for my other work.)

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    You might look at Romi - they make tool room lathes, which seemed nicer than the Haas to me (I bought a turning center though.)

    See also Atrump.

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    ooops.... when I said Mori, above, I meant Romi.

    Will edit.

    S

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    I have thought about the haas tl as a gunsmithing lathe it looks perfect however after alot of digging around I have decided to look for something else, many users on different forums report repeatablity issues with the tailstock and in some cases not being able to cut a straight cylinder! however saying that perhaps those issues have now been corrected with newer models? Surgeon rifles use a haas looking at their website and chamber using the toolholder. I like the look of the prototrak lathes especialy as they have hardened and ground ways and apparantly the controller is meant to be very user friendly. A friend of mine who use to work at Nesika swears that the harrison alpha 1400 slantbed lathe could almost have been designed for gunsmithing work and loved it! When I get a chance ill be having a serious look at harrison or maybe an ajax evolution with touch screen fanuc control.
    http://www.ajax-mach.co.uk/cnc_lathes_evolution_cnc.htm
    Let us know what you decide to get and how you get on with it .

    KB

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    I can't help you with the TL-1 but I do run hundreds and hundreds of barrels a month through a Haas SL-20 and SL-30 with nooo problems.
    Carl

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    Default Tool room cnc lathes

    You might want to look at the summit lathes also with the FAGOR controller, small tool changer also.

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    Default Center on Bore using a Haas CNC ST-20Y Lathe

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheenist View Post
    I can't help you with the TL-1 but I do run hundreds and hundreds of barrels a month through a Haas SL-20 and SL-30 with nooo problems.
    Carl
    We are thinking about getting a new ST-20Y CNC Lathe and are looking at how the rifle barrels are centered on bore in the Haas ST-20s. We have looked at the "True Bore Alignment System" but we're not sure if there is a better way using the Haas SY-20 unit. Can you let me know what system you are using?

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    Have a Southwestern Industries 1630SX used for exterior profiling and no have no complaints.

    Best to find contact SW and find out who your local rep is and see if the have a demo center nearby.

    A few months ago had Bob the rep/distributor for ZPS stopped in and he mentioned, after looking at the 1630SX that they were going to start bringing in a similar CNC tool room lathe which sounded like a great candidate for barrels. No idea on what the price will be. Bob is a great guy and knows the product well. ZPS-CNC USA, Inc.

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    for chambering, John Scandale at Keystone accuracy uses hass lathes with the true bore alignment system. IIRC chad Dixon at LRI may also, or has in the past.
    The owner of McGowan barrels said they had a tl1 for contouring but it was too light and chattered. He said that a pneumatic follow rest helped but it was still slower than what they wanted. IDK what they replaced it with.

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    Ha Ha, I got my laugh of the day "True Bore Alignment systems", any one buying that! Really needs to go back to square one and learn a few things about lathes.
    There is a real disconnect between good industry practice, and crap sold to poor gunsmiths, all of your machining problems have been solved long ago in industry, not forums, gizmos, or magazines.
    Ha, no matter how much you spend on a barrel, the bore is not as true as you think. The reality is, no matter what you work on, it will be a series of compromises that in the end, will make it work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    ……………….
    Ha, no matter how much you spend on a barrel, the bore is not as true as you think. The reality is, no matter what you work on, it will be a series of compromises that in the end, will make it work.
    Ain't that the truth!

    Take what looks like a perfect rifled blank and when it's all said and done it turns into a banana....Crap! Then when built the rifle shoots best of anything you have ever done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Ha Ha, I got my laugh of the day "True Bore Alignment systems", any one buying that! Really needs to go back to square one and learn a few things about lathes.
    There is a real disconnect between good industry practice, and crap sold to poor gunsmiths, all of your machining problems have been solved long ago in industry, not forums, gizmos, or magazines.
    Ha, no matter how much you spend on a barrel, the bore is not as true as you think. The reality is, no matter what you work on, it will be a series of compromises that in the end, will make it work.
    ugh, have you ever used one or looked at one? Its basically a chuck attached to a U joint type system to get the bore running true. I have one, a few of my friends have them, and they are faster and more accurate than anything else I've used. IN fact for shorter barrels than your headstock its great.
    Yes I know about a "viper" type truing system, have one and have used one, but the tru bore is faster and easier, and to be honest better in that it you cant slightly bend the barrel.
    From your post I really don't think you know what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akajun View Post
    ugh, have you ever used one or looked at one? Its basically a chuck attached to a U joint type system to get the bore running true. I have one, a few of my friends have them, and they are faster and more accurate than anything else I've used. IN fact for shorter barrels than your headstock its great.
    Yes I know about a "viper" type truing system, have one and have used one, but the tru bore is faster and easier, and to be honest better in that it you cant slightly bend the barrel.
    From your post I really don't think you know what it is.
    Hey Cajun, Donie has been around the block at least 2 times and really knows his machining. Yes, I am aware of the gadgets that you are speaking of and they cannot straighten a crooked bore.

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    Not sure why you guys feel the need to "drive by snipe" at a pretty good product, no one ever claimed it straightens a crooked bore.

    Pretty sure we can all agree that very few barrels are concentric OD to ID and that getting the rifled bore concentric with the rotation of the lathe spindle is important and desirable in precision barrel work like chambering and threading.

    Trubore fixture is "one" way of doing this- definitely not the only way, but it works well for a lot of people and has some real advantages over other methods.
    The main benefit being- clamping of the part is independent of the adjustments for radial and axial alignment. In industry "time to complete the job to print" matters. An adjustable fixture (like the Trubore) is often much more consistent and faster to set up compared to tweaking with various shims and trying to tap the part into alignment in the chuck jaws.

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    They don’t straighten the bore, it’s just a fancy backplate with a 6 jaw that adjusts in x,y, and I guess you’d call it axial? It does the same thing as a viper type fixture but with a chuck and no way that you can accidentally tweak or impart stress the bore or action when aligning it. It doesn’t claim to straighten it.
    Either way I really like mine, so do a lot of other people.

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    Unless your headstock is too wide, they're are better ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akajun View Post
    They don’t straighten the bore, it’s just a fancy backplate with a 6 jaw that adjusts in x,y, and I guess you’d call it axial? It does the same thing as a viper type fixture but with a chuck and no way that you can accidentally tweak or impart stress the bore or action when aligning it. It doesn’t claim to straighten it.
    Either way I really like mine, so do a lot of other people.



    I know about Bob Pastor'e Viper and the fancy chuck. They are a work around if you have a lathe with a long headstock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post
    I know about Bob Pastor'e Viper and the fancy chuck. They are a work around if you have a lathe with a long headstock.
    that would be most turning center
    my QT10 a baby in the cnc world has 36in draw tube.
    now as for cnc tool room lathes, well I been wanting a nice used protrac
    or SW

    now on the Hydrashift well I'm in the speercucker camp and just work between centers
    headstock is way too long for most barrels

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    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    that would be most turning center
    my QT10 a baby in the cnc world has 36in draw tube.
    now as for cnc tool room lathes, well I been wanting a nice used protrac
    or SW

    now on the Hydrashift well I'm in the speercucker camp and just work between centers
    headstock is way too long for most barrels


    Speer is doing well. He isn't putting up with the keyboard know it alls anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butch Lambert View Post
    Speer is doing well. He isn't putting up with the keyboard know it alls anymore.

    given the choice I would prefer Speer always good practical ideas

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