AR-15 Lower dxf file(s)? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakme2 View Post
    The ATF changed the law recently. You cant rent or borrow any machinery or tools to "manufacture" a gun on. You have to own the machinery/tools outright to keep the process legal. It is just more roadblocks that cut down on our freedom, but to stay legal we have to operate within their rules/laws as they define. There is a small specialty CNC mill that can machine an AR lower, the ghost gunner I believe. They had plans to lease them, the ATF had different ideas, so the new rule was placed into effect. All ATF rules have the effect of laws, and they have serious penalty's, IMHO you need to stay on top of them if you are making a firearm. If you want to finish an 80% AR lower with minimum tooling check out a place called 5D Tactical. You don't even need a mill to finish an 80% AR lower.
    so as far as doing a so called 80% you have an old raggty ass drill mill with the tooling mounted in the bed of a old truck the guy comes and buys it for 5 grand cash he comes back the next day and sells it back to you for 4500 cash mr potato head aka biden can go pack sand

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakme2 View Post
    The ATF changed the law recently. You cant rent or borrow any machinery or tools to "manufacture" a gun on. You have to own the machinery/tools outright to keep the process legal. It is just more roadblocks that cut down on our freedom, but to stay legal we have to operate within their rules/laws as they define. There is a small specialty CNC mill that can machine an AR lower, the ghost gunner I believe. They had plans to lease them, the ATF had different ideas, so the new rule was placed into effect. All ATF rules have the effect of laws, and they have serious penalty's, IMHO you need to stay on top of them if you are making a firearm. If you want to finish an 80% AR lower with minimum tooling check out a place called 5D Tactical. You don't even need a mill to finish an 80% AR lower.
    That isn’t even a recent rulings as in way back in the Obama administration,
    Goes back to the build party days where you would pay a fee and then push the green button.
    Ghost gunner specific rules would be the Trump administration

  4. #23
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    Default AR15 Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Miranda View Post
    I have searched the gunsmithing forum and have not found dxf versions of the ar 15 lowers and I thought that would be a pretty common interest. Is anyone aware of them? Thanks.
    I have the plans in SolidWorks I could save them as DXF, STEP or Iges

  5. #24
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    7075 is a lot stronger (yield and ultimate strength) than 6061, so if someone were building a lower to use with something crazy like a Beowulf upper it might be a good idea.

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    Although you are correct that 7075 is stronger than 6061, It really doesn't matter that much... For the most part, the lower just goes for a ride. The ONLY place it really makes any difference at all is in the buffer tower. And even then the material (7075 vs. 6061) is less important than billet vs. forging... Remember there are THOUSANDS of plastic lowers out there that seem to work just fine for an awful lot of shooters.

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  8. #26
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    I disagree that it is a moot point. For example, the area around where the buffer tube attaches has known to be problematic for plastic designs, not to mention the stress concentrations around the pivot and take-down pins. And, all else being equal (a given caliber) a 7075 lower could be considerably lighter than a 6061 if the design takes advantage of the strength.

    I'm in the space business, where weight is everything, and in fact just selected 7075 over 6061 for an assembly I am designing (from scratch) that will be fired into space in the next couple of years. The very reason I selected it was for the strength. It is almost twice as strong on yield and ultimate strength for only a 4% gain in density. After very detailed analysis of the design, going with 7075 was a no-brainer.

    If I were billet machining a lower from scratch, or even an 80% lower, if I could get either 6061 or 7075, I'd choose 7075 every time. Why not? If I were building something like a Beowulf, I'd do it for sure. I for certain would NOT use a plastic lower on a Beowulf, and I design and build plastic parts for rifles.

    We can agree to disagree on this point, does not matter to me.

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deude-Mann View Post
    I disagree that it is a moot point. For example, the area around where the buffer tube attaches has known to be problematic for plastic designs, not to mention the stress concentrations around the pivot and take-down pins. And, all else being equal (a given caliber) a 7075 lower could be considerably lighter than a 6061 if the design takes advantage of the strength.

    I'm in the space business, where weight is everything, and in fact just selected 7075 over 6061 for an assembly I am designing (from scratch) that will be fired into space in the next couple of years. The very reason I selected it was for the strength. It is almost twice as strong on yield and ultimate strength for only a 4% gain in density. After very detailed analysis of the design, going with 7075 was a no-brainer.

    If I were billet machining a lower from scratch, or even an 80% lower, if I could get either 6061 or 7075, I'd choose 7075 every time. Why not? If I were building something like a Beowulf, I'd do it for sure. I for certain would NOT use a plastic lower on a Beowulf, and I design and build plastic parts for rifles.

    We can agree to disagree on this point, does not matter to me.



    I've been told that this is why the old planet Earth revolves. We can disagree.

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  12. #28
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    We can disagree.

    At least for the moment.

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deude-Mann View Post
    I disagree that it is a moot point. For example, the area around where the buffer tube attaches has known to be problematic for plastic designs, not to mention the stress concentrations around the pivot and take-down pins.
    The buffer tower has been an area of concern for all designs... going back to the original Stoner design. It is THE reason the lowers were forged in the first place. It is the ONE area that does something OTHER THAN go along for the ride. For that reason alone, ALL of my AR lowers are 7075 forgings. The issues with the takedown & pivot pins are all but eliminated with proper fitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deude-Mann View Post
    And, all else being equal (a given caliber) a 7075 lower could be considerably lighter than a 6061 if the design takes advantage of the strength.
    Although absolutely true, as it relates to the AR it is a moot point. Any weight reduction would be achieved by thining sidewalls from the outside in. This would be an issue as far as fit with the upper is concerned. One of the appeals of the AR is interchangeability. Modifications of this sort would negate that, of at least make the Franken-child butt ugly!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deude-Mann View Post
    I'm in the space business, where weight is everything,
    I came from the marine world, where the placement of weight is everything!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deude-Mann View Post
    and in fact just selected 7075 over 6061 for an assembly I am designing (from scratch) that will be fired into space in the next couple of years. The very reason I selected it was for the strength. It is almost twice as strong on yield and ultimate strength for only a 4% gain in density. After very detailed analysis of the design, going with 7075 was a no-brainer.
    The funny thing about material selections is that no matter the application, there all ALWAYS compromises... If strength to weight were my only constraints I would choose Titanium... But again carving an AR down to take advantage of the fact that Ti is nearly twice as strong as 7075 comes with other issues as well. I have no clue what your design criteria were so it would be pointless to comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deude-Mann View Post
    If I were billet machining a lower from scratch, or even an 80% lower, if I could get either 6061 or 7075, I'd choose 7075 every time. Why not?
    Material selection = compromise... I'm not aware of a material I might want that I can not get my hands on. With that said, I wouldn't billet machine an AR lower, personally... Ok... Maybe out of Ti just because I can... The whole purpose behind forging the lower was to deal with the stresses on the buffer tower. A forged 6061 lower will be stronger in this location than a machined 7075 lower! Aluminum has a grain structure! No matter which way you orient the grain in a machined lower, the transition at the buffer tower causes a problem. PROPER forgings eliminate this issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deude-Mann View Post
    If I were building something like a Beowulf, I'd do it for sure. I for certain would NOT use a plastic lower on a Beowulf, and I design and build plastic parts for rifles.
    If I were doing a Beowulf (which I can not imagine myself doing), I would not use a billet lower, period. That doesn't mean anyone is wrong for doing it. I have seen a .50 BMG on a cast polymer lower. Not something I would do, but he wasn't me!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deude-Mann View Post
    We can agree to disagree on this point, does not matter to me.
    My point here is NOT to disagree with you or anyone else on this topic. I see my lowers as a long-term investment, not a throwaway item. Others like the price, or color, or whatever their driving factor is... My point is simply that ANY lower will work, for a person of time, with any upper on the market.

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  16. #30
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    Agreed on all points. I did not want to get into all of the details for time's sake.

    Since it was brought up... I've worked with a lot of high-end materials, forgings, high tolerance parts, and have designed and optimized more complex parts and assemblies than I can remember, and used standard and exotic processes to get there, pushing the envelope most of the time. Machining, electroforming, forgings (personally responsible for a $250K set of large aluminum forging tooling a long time ago, only one place in the U.S. could do it), EDM, composites, plastics, metals (aluminum, titanium, magnesium, tungsten, tantalum, 300M, A286, on and on), high performance engineering ceramics, etc. etc.. I've got work orbiting the Earth, work currently on its way to Mercury, and work soon to be headed for Jupiter.

    Since we are always making prototypes for space (only a few of anything ever get built), and the systems are highly optimized for a given mission, most all of the cost is in the Engineering and material cost almost does not matter at all. Sometimes exotic materials can pay for themselves by saving on engineering cost. Clearly this does not apply to something as common as AR15 lowers.

    In a past life I also made components for military aircraft and military ground systems. Interesting stuff as well.

    So this could go back and forth a million times. My original intent was to answer the question of why someone would use 7075 over 6061, and not try to open up the whole universe of materials, solutions, and geometries as applied to AR15 lowers regardless of cartridge.

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    6061 offers superior corrosion resistance over 7xxx series material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalG View Post
    6061 offers superior corrosion resistance over 7xxx series material.
    Beeswax is more corrosion resistant than aluminum...

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  21. #33
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    Arrow AR15 Plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Miranda View Post
    I have searched the gunsmithing forum and have not found dxf versions of the ar 15 lowers and I thought that would be a pretty common interest. Is anyone aware of them? Thanks.
    I have them in SolidWorks what format did you want them in?


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