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  1. #41
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    What happened to post 40 by Kurt Learning? Did he say something wrong and got scrubbed?

    Tom

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    I see two posts from him that are marked "Moderated Post." I don't know where that came from or why. These are his texts:

    Many years ago I had a commercial slam fire shotgun. It was more for the collection than anything else, so I don't recall ever firing it. I do recall though, it was made in Washington, DC.
    Not practical for most applications, but in a pinch...
    Not sure how to post URL quick link, so you may have to cut and paste.


    Years ago I had a commercial slam fire shotgun.
    I don't recall firing it, as it was for my collection.
    And I don't recall if it was made by Richardson, however, I do recall it was made in Washington DC.
    Not practical for most applications, but then most firearms are purchased as toys for entertainment.


    Also had youtube links.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GGaskill View Post
    I see two posts from him that are marked "Moderated Post." I don't know where that came from or why. These are his texts:

    Many years ago I had a commercial slam fire shotgun. It was more for the collection than anything else, so I don't recall ever firing it. I do recall though, it was made in Washington, DC.
    Not practical for most applications, but in a pinch...
    Not sure how to post URL quick link, so you may have to cut and paste.


    Years ago I had a commercial slam fire shotgun.
    I don't recall firing it, as it was for my collection.
    And I don't recall if it was made by Richardson, however, I do recall it was made in Washington DC.
    Not practical for most applications, but then most firearms are purchased as toys for entertainment.


    Also had youtube links.
    I suspect that refers to the Richardson, which was made and sold post WWII by a former Naval officer who had remained behind in the Philippines. It was a U.S. made version of water pipe shotguns he saw guerillas use. AFAIK it was the only commercial version ever made.

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    Here's what can happen when even a factory shotgun lets loose.
    A mother brought this Winchester pump into my shop and wanted to know why this happened when her son, 18 yo, fired it.
    I asked her what ammunition had he fired in it and she said he was a little vague about that.
    I asked was he hurt and she replied his left hand and forearm got peppered with shrapnel, and he couldn't hear out of his left ear for a few days.
    I told her it's very hard to say without knowing what he fired out of it, but he was very lucky.
    I gave her the phone # for Winchester and told her she should send this gun back to Winchester because they are going to want to see it.
    She thanked me and asked how much she owed me. I said nothing, just let me know how things turn out.
    I never heard back from her.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails imggyro333.jpg  

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    I wouldn't want to shoot a slamfire shotgun, but I don't find any instances of them actually blowing up. At least not in the videos I found on youtube searching "pipe shotgun". And there are many of them. Not to say it doesn't happen.

    This as basic as it gets slamfire appears to have surprisingly little kick.

    YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptsmith View Post
    I wouldn't want to shoot a slamfire shotgun, but I don't find any instances of them actually blowing up. At least not in the videos I found on youtube searching "pipe shotgun". And there are many of them. Not to say it doesn't happen.

    This as basic as it gets slamfire appears to have surprisingly little kick.

    YouTube
    Because there's no forcing cone. That's why people can get away with using pipe. The entire tube is in effect a massive back bore.

    ================================================== ==============================

    That blown up Winchester looks like what happens when someone accidentally loads a 12 gauge shell behind a 20 and then pulls the trigger.

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    Local smith had a shotgun that looked almost like that in a glass case.

    The problem was that the shooter had loaded a 20ga round into a 12ga shotgun. The round went into the chamber, but wasn't held by the extractor or rim, so the firing pin barely touched it. Shooter thought he had a misfire... cycled the pump, didn't see anything eject. Figured he's had a misfeed instead. Chambers another round, and it goes in just fine, because this one was a 12ga shell. unfortunately, the 20ga shell was sitting in the barrel, just ahead of the chamber. Pulled the trigger and Boom! Rapid, unscheduled disassembly.

    The smith kept it as a warning to be mindful of "misfeeds" and to always check the barrel after a dud, squib, misfire, etc...

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    I don't know what exactly went wrong, but I am determined to take advantage of this very fine site.
    Thank you.
    YouTube

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    Looking at the video of the Pipe Barrel slam fire shot gun I doubt it will do much of anything. When the shooter removed the shell only the brass was left. I suspect the plastic tube burst and the entire assembly was forced down the barrel probably with little pressure hence very low velocity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptsmith View Post
    I wouldn't want to shoot a slamfire shotgun, but I don't find any instances of them actually blowing up. At least not in the videos I found on youtube searching "pipe shotgun". And there are many of them. Not to say it doesn't happen.

    This as basic as it gets slamfire appears to have surprisingly little kick.

    YouTube
    I'm sooooo . not INTO this foolishness.....

    But here - as was queued-up on MY system right after your link ran - is a video where the guy did the math, explained why water pipe was a bad idea, used heavier-wall and far more consistent as well as stronger chrome-moly, did a bit of lathe work, TiG, hardening, etc.

    YouTube

    .. and ended with proof the whole concept is a sorry excuse for a weapon, even in desperation.

    May as well have been a 12-bore recoilless for all the drama to the REAR of it.

    Meanwhile. DEADLY weapons of long standing remain cheaper-yet, and rock-reliable. Literally..

    YouTube

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    I read about a doctor in Alaska who has treated 10 Grizzly attacks. He will not go in the woods without his .475 Linebaugh on his hip.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    I read about a doctor in Alaska who has treated 10 Grizzly attacks. He will not go in the woods without his .475 Linebaugh on his hip.

    Bill
    About fifty or sixty years ago, a "trackwaker" (inspector) for one of the Northerly railroads was attacked by a Grizzlie. He just kept reaching, picking, throwing and backpeddling to a new supply of ballast-rock ammo under his feet between the ties.

    Blinded the bear. Then killed it. Shattered skull. Badly. And from a distance.

    Trackwalker was a serious good amateur ballplayer. "Pitcher" or some such funny sounding title sounds like tableware, his team position was...



    Tighter pucker-factor was when the location party of the ALCAN Highway jumped-off on horseback, summer of '42. Entered a clearing, Bear entered same clearing from the other side. Horses did the wise thing automagically, got the Hell outta Dodge with their riders.

    Except one a Sergeant was atop.

    Went forelegs to max rate of clime, dropped his passenger on his arse spraddlelegged and departed the scene, Springfield 03A3 with him.

    Nothing for it but 1911A1 .45 ACP GI ball ammo. Not one's first choice, but yah run what yah got.

    And be damned glad he was Regimental Champion pistol shot.

    Bear didn't die easy, even so. Carcass skidded to within a few feet of the still arse-nailed shooter time it had taken eight rounds in the head out of ten fired, second magazine up.

    Thinkin' over what I'd want to carry in the North Woods?

    Staying out of them is all that comes to mind. Bears are no big deal.

    Dad's stories about INSECTS are another matter, entire.....


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    If I were anywhere there was a possibility of a Grizzly I would not have that slam fire shot gun, I doubt it would do anything at all. 12 gauge Shell is .729" OD 3/4, Sch. 40 pipe is .824" ID. That's nearly .100" larger than the shell! Plastic would fail as seen in the video posted a while ago, plastic shell will separate going along with the shot, crimp probably broken but not fully open. Large amount of the gas will escape around the separated case so pressure is low and therefore the velocity of projectile very low. If the shot and plastic wad cup were pushed of of the case a large opening will result and lowering pressure more! In the current video the breach was blown back as I figured it would if the ID of the barrel were made smaller. Good this is it gives the nut cases thoughts that they have a lethal weapon, maybe they would then try it with 3-1/2" Magnum 12 gauge shells for more power with Sch. 80 pipe and stand in front of the breach. Cleaning up the gene pool!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    If I were anywhere there was a possibility of a Grizzly I would not have that slam fire shot gun, I doubt it would do anything at all. 12 gauge Shell is .729" OD 3/4 Sch. 40 pipe is .824" ID. That's nearly .100" larger that the shell! Plastic would fail as seen in the video posted a while ago, shell will separate going along with the shot, crimp probably broken but not fully open. Large amount of the gas will escape around the separated case so pressure is low and therefore the velocity of projectile very low. If the shot and plastic wad cup were pushed of of the case a large opening will result and lowering pressure more! In the current video the breach was blown back as I figured it would if the ID of the barrel were made smaller. Good this is it gives the nut cases thoughts that they have a lethal weapon, maybe they would then try it with 3-1/2" Magnum 12 gauge shells for more power and stand in front of the breach. Cleaning up the gene pool!
    "Real Men" might carry a 12-Ga diver's "bang stick" to save pack mass.

    Sure mess up a Bear's last day.

    Downside is that it's a CONTACT weapon - homogenises the contents of the body cavity as much from the trapped gas bubble as any shot.,so prolly the user's last day, too, if even he lasts long enough to use it, proper at all.

    Bear has an astonishing reach and kinetic energy delivery in a swipe for a portly f**ker.

    Mebbe the best defensive weapon yah can take into the woods to protect against Bears is just a bigger and faster BEAR?



    Or a Wolverine.... that actually gives a damn about you!

    That last part is sore HARD as they don't seem to much give a damn about themselves.

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    I guess the upshot is a bunch of M80's do about as much damage and are lighter and smaller.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    I guess the upshot is a bunch of M80's do about as much damage and are lighter and smaller.

    Tom
    Not my patch, but IMNSHO, a gunSMITHING forum shuddn' be ABOUT damage or mayhem. Only competent application of the craft towards safe and reliable outcomes.

    You seen the news this week?

    We could do with more closed breeches and captive nuts, fewer plotters of nightmares.

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    Thanks for reminding me (and others) that the thread was drifting.

    Tom

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    I don't know about the laws in Az, but California has a law against making zip guns. Any homemade firearm has to be based on an action that has been manufactured. Everything else is a zip gun. Unless you're a manufacturer, you can't experiment much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Not my patch, but IMNSHO, a gunSMITHING forum shuddn' be ABOUT damage or mayhem. Only competent application of the craft towards safe and reliable outcomes.

    You seen the news this week?

    We could do with more closed breeches and captive nuts, fewer plotters of nightmares.
    Agreed. As a lifelong gun owner, supporter of the 2nd and all, loaded 12 ga Browning O&A three steps away from me as I write, this has gotten far beyond any reason or event we can shrug off as an isolated incident. Probably not in this thread, but should we be discussing what we as gun owners and makers should be doing on our own? Should we be thinking about self policing? Forget the politicians and their agendas and look for what we can do.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    Agreed. As a lifelong gun owner, supporter of the 2nd and all, loaded 12 ga Browning O&A three steps away from me as I write, this has gotten far beyond any reason or event we can shrug off as an isolated incident. Probably not in this thread, but should we be discussing what we as gun owners and makers should be doing on our own? Should we be thinking about self policing? Forget the politicians and their agendas and look for what we can do.

    Bill
    I'd love to but I don't know what that is. These people seem so far removed from normal society I don't think they'd cross our paths as gun owners (IE-, I doubt we'll see them at a practice range or match). You may see them in another context but would you know they needed help?

    I'm certainly open to any ideas that don't involve more gun control.

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