Barrel OD issues. Sleeve??

I bought a eBay 6.5mm SS barrel blank. I didnt check the major od of the blank. It is .995" dia. I want to install it on a small ring mauser action that is 1.295" od with a .985-12 thread. So the thread is fine but it gives me virtually no shoulder to lock against. SM Mauser does not have an internal ring to seat against. Can I press and Tig weld a sleeve to the barrel and then blend in the contour? Thinking barrel is 416ss, would make the sleeve from 416ss. 1-1/4" od x .984" id and heat to shrink and press fit over .995 barrel.
Any suggestions or concerns?

If memory serves me I don't believe 416 welds that great. Plus welding on the barrel will mess up the heat treat and probably cause some stress or warping. If anything my guess would be hard spots around the weld.

You can thread the tenon end of barrel longer then needed for receiver engagement and make a nut setup like used on Savage barrels. Personally I wouldn't waste my time doing it, just because the barrel was inexpensive. In the long run it cost more then just getting the correct barrel blank.

paracongo308 said:

You can thread the tenon end of barrel longer then needed for receiver engagement and make a nut setup like used on Savage barrels. Personally I wouldn't waste my time doing it, just because the barrel was inexpensive. In the long run it cost more then just getting the correct barrel blank.

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This is a good solution, but I have to disagree with it being a waste of time. If you are somewhat competent with a lathe, there should be less than an hour of work involved in adding a barrel nut. You can just mill one or two flats on the nut and use a wrench, or even file them if you don't have a mill.

James Lederer said:

This is a good solution, but I have to disagree with it being a waste of time. If you are somewhat competent with a lathe, there should be less than an hour of work involved in adding a barrel nut. You can just mill one or two flats on the nut and use a wrench, or even file them if you don't have a mill.

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The nut sounds like a good idea. At this point in my career I am pretty competent with a lathe. LOL I will look at a savage setup to see how that is assembled. If I am understanding you correctly I would be using the nut as a lock nut to hold barrel thread in position. It would also make adjusting headspace even easier. Should I pin the nut after its locked down or at least a set screw to ensure that it cant ever loosen. I wouldnt want the barrel to creep forward and end up with excessive headspace.

You shouldn't have to use any sort of pin or setscrew. Don't be afraid to use 60-70 foot pounds of torque when you tighten it. If you make the nut longer, and bore the muzzle end out to say 1.000" it can hide the threads on the barrel shank and look good too. Make sure the action side of the nut is dead square to the threads. You can bore, thread, and face the nut in one setup before parting it off your stock.

James Lederer said:

You shouldn't have to use any sort of pin or setscrew. Don't be afraid to use 60-70 foot pounds of torque when you tighten it. If you make the nut longer, and bore the muzzle end out to say 1.000" it can hide the threads on the barrel shank and look good too. Make sure the action side of the nut is dead square to the threads. You can bore, thread, and face the nut in one setup before parting it off your stock.

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I checked out the picks of the savage 14/114. It looks pretty clean when using the tapered nut that is slotted for a spanner wrench. Maybe I can match up to a wrench I have around shop and do a similar setup. Thinking I will make the nut steel and then ceracote the receiver and nut leaving the barrel polished or beaded ss. Should make for a nice looking setup.
Looking for a good place to rent throat and finish reamer. Any suggestions?

Check out brownells or midway I recall seeing the nuts with the mauser thread somewhere.

Actually most of the Mausers were designed for the barrel to seat against the internal ring. If that is the case with your action then you really don't need the external shoulder on the barrel, however depending on the caliber I like a little more meat around the cartridge than the .995" you have.

Gary

Concerns.... plenty..

You keep coming up with the most unsafe ideas I can think of..

460 S&W Mosin... TIG Welding all around the chamber... and on 316 SS to boot.

Here is what I suggest.

Go to a Gunsmithing school/collage, say around 2 years.. No a set of DVD's will not cut it...

Or get a Mechanical Engineering degree.

Or at least, get to be a certified pressure vessel welder. You will learn how metals react/change when welded...

This is not a put down..

When an action or barrel fails, parts (often heavy parts) go flying in all directions.

All too easy to kill, maim, blind, an innocent bystander, or yourself..

Get some F'n training, before you hurt someone...

Trying to save a buck on a high pressure device, is just not the way to go. Although a Savage style nut is fine... It does limit OD of barrel

Do it right, or do not do it... You only get one life...

Search for SAKO Barrel failure, M1903 Springfield receiver failure, Mauser receiver failures.

In the case of SAKO and the Springfields.. Even big Companies and Gov't Arsenals, screw up.. People get hurt..

There are many good books like: Bolt Action Rifles written by Frank De Haas. Clearly explains action strengths/weaknesses and recommended caliber/pressures.

Many other books out there, that are also useful in providing reasons to, or not to, modify firearms.. Hatchers Notebook. The Modern Gunsmith by Howe etc..

abarnsley said:

Concerns.... plenty..

You keep coming up with the most unsafe ideas I can think of..

460 S&W Mosin... TIG Welding all around the chamber... and on 316 SS to boot.

Here is what I suggest.

Go to a Gunsmithing school/collage, say around 2 years.. No a set of DVD's will not cut it...

Or get a Mechanical Engineering degree.

Or at least, get to be a certified pressure vessel welder. You will learn how metals react/change when welded...

This is not a put down..

When an action or barrel fails, parts (often heavy parts) go flying in all directions.

All too easy to kill, maim, blind, an innocent bystander, or yourself..

Get some F'n training, before you hurt someone...

Trying to save a buck on a high pressure device, is just not the way to go. Although a Savage style nut is fine... It does limit OD of barrel

Do it right, or do not do it... You only get one life...

Search for SAKO Barrel failure, M1903 Springfield receiver failure, Mauser receiver failures.

In the case of SAKO and the Springfields.. Even big Companies and Gov't Arsenals, screw up.. People get hurt..

There are many good books like: Bolt Action Rifles written by Frank De Haas. Clearly explains action strengths/weaknesses and recommended caliber/pressures.

Many other books out there, that are also useful in providing reasons to, or not to, modify firearms.. Hatchers Notebook. The Modern Gunsmith by Howe etc..

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I appreciate your concerns. Most of the posts I put up are more of open brainstorming discussions. There are no schools or trusted gunsmiths in S. NJ to relate these ideas with. If I ask the questions and get favorable answers I can move forward and work out the engineering with a little research. I also wouldnt test fire anything with my hands on it. I can strap this thing down and remote fire proof loads. As you said I am not familiar with pressure vessel engineering, I am familiar with tensile, shear, elasticity formulas and engineering, although I havent used it much in the past 20 years. I own and run a successful family started job shop because its where I found a path for a lucrative career. My work is usually in plastic, 300 series SS, Hasteloy, Inconel, etc.. I thought this forum was for working out problems and bouncing ideas off of similar minded people. If im wrong than I will stop posting and discussing.
In this case the barrel is threaded to a minor diameter somewhere around .810" dia. Thats the week point in the assembly. Does matter if its under the nut or in the receiver?

glbreil said:

Actually most of the Mausers were designed for the barrel to seat against the internal ring. If that is the case with your action then you really don't need the external shoulder on the barrel, however depending on the caliber I like a little more meat around the cartridge than the .995" you have.

Gary

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Unfortunately this is a 1916 Spanish, no internal seating ring. Even if there was I would still use a locking nut of some sort. Its easy enough to make and would give that added security. As far as meat around the cartridge- Its going to be a 6.5x55 fairly low pressure (51k psi max) round. .995 is still well over the minor diameter of the the thread and undercut. Seeing as this thing will have so many changes I plan to test it with some proof loads without my hands or face sitting on it.

Not busting your chops...

And yes, you have to travel, to go to college most places...

But just get a better action..

Just got to use it?? .. Make a single shot .22 out of it, or an inline muzzleloader...

The 6.5 cartridge is certainly mild enough..

I happen to have a 6.5 Swedish Mauser (1918 Carl Gustof) ) right here in shop, with right side of receiver ring blown completely away. Roughly a 3/4 sq in piece of steel.

Swede also has no rear barrel shoulder.. Really easy to see that, through missing side of receiver ring.

Cause... factory ammo (Hanson.....) case failure from primer pocket to edge of rim.. (likely a seam in brass)

Thats right, not an over pressure/hot load, a simple flaw in the brass, completely wrecked a rifle... Stock broken, scope bent. Proof load tests, will not fix poor action design..

I am old enough, to have seen many brand new POS guns, with genuine gov't proof house marks/test stamps, that would not last 100 shots.. RG Rohm etc

Many of the new Euro look alike .22 semi pistols, are breaking their alloy slides, Walthers, Sig Mosquitos etc. All Gov't proofed..

You are starting with bottom of the barrel scrap actions..

When I was a kid, those actions were literally IN a barrel at local gun shop.. Not worth remodeling, limited strength, poor gas handling, and iffy heat treat..

Move up in the world... Get a large ring (NoT TUrK) Mauser, A high number 1903, A 1917 Enfield (seen some Eddystones cracked..)

Blueprint a factory Rem 700 action, pimp it out with a Sako extractor, whatever... Costs more... but when finished, rifle is worth more... Safer and will shoot better too.

You have a shop, why P*ss around with cheap junk???

Bouncing ideas is great, but really..... Do some reading. Everything De Haas wrote, was decent. In his single shot actions book, he even has barrel sleeve details and it's limitations..

Decades of info, in American Rifleman articles.

Remember, They make barrels out of 416 SS, not 316 SS.

No one has brought up that the SR Mauser was a poor action design. Only that the Spanish one was made with poor grade steel (1020ish) and suffered from poor heat treatment. A appreciate your concern and will likely take it into consideration as you are not the first to have comments over the 1916. I ask on hear to learn from those that have done this prior, kind of like a online apprenticeship. The 1916 makes for a fair display or possibly the local PD will do a buy back program again and I can get paid $100 for it.
Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way. I planned on making a pos rifle a decent shooter instead of taking a good rifle like my FN or 700 and making it better as a learning project.

Don't know the alloy, but if it's 416 I don't think it can be welded: Steel PK333 (Mat.No. 1.4005, DIN X12CrS13, AISI 416)

Either way, welding on a critical component like the chamber end of a barrel? If you have to ask, DON'T! Just, don't. High strength materials can be pretty touchy when it comes to welding, you have to know far more than how to make the weld look good. A threaded nut would be a much safer solution.

Maybe save this barrel for another project, and go with a low pressure cartridge if you want to make a shooter - 45 ACP would make a neat little rifle for plinking.