Black powder barrel of carbon fiber?

Monday · Jan 8, 2019

Black powder barrel made of carbon fiber?

Hello, I’’ve seen thin steel barrels wrapped in carbon fibers on modern guns.

Since carbon fiber has a very high tensile strength and also is a very light weight material,it make sense. However, I want to take this a step further. I thought about the possibility to make a barrel made of 100% carbon fiber - without the inner barrel made of steel.

Since black powder has a much lower pressure rate than modern gunpowder, I will load it with BP/pyrodex only.

What’s the minimum wall thickness, for caliber .40-.50, propelled with ~20-35 grains FFFG BP?

Can I prevent the barrel from catching fire by avoiding rapid fire? Or by using a thin inner barrel of carbon fiber, that can be replaced and cool down between each shot? Impregnating the bore with flame retardant could also be an alternative.

What kind of carbon fiber pipe are ideal in this application?

Milland · Jan 8, 2019

This is an "interesting" idea, but I'd suggest not trying it. Remember that CF composites include a polymer resin that constrains the carbon fibers together, and this polymer will be worn, thermally shocked, and compressed with each firing. It will break down quickly, exposing unsupported CF, which will fracture away.

And so you'll have successive erosion of the barrel. Frankly, I don't even think a carbon wrap over a steel liner is a good idea, but at least it's less of a "bad one".

moonlight machine · Jan 8, 2019

I see no chance that this will work. If you have to ask you clearly don't have the knowledge or technology to attempt this.

EmGo · Jan 8, 2019

Milland said:
This is an "interesting" idea ...

And so you'll have successive erosion of the barrel. Frankly, I don't even think a carbon wrap over a steel liner is a good idea, but at least it's less of a "bad one".

But carbon fiber doesn't set off metal detectors, does it ?

Maybe he only needs a couple shots

Mram10 · Jan 8, 2019

Try it with a long string and video so we can learn from it

moonlight machine · Jan 8, 2019

EmanuelGoldstein said:
But carbon fiber doesn't set off metal detectors, does it ?

Maybe he only needs a couple shots

Good point, well presented.......

Spruewell · Jan 9, 2019

Just don’t point that thing at Bugs Bunny. One finger in the end of the barrel and its all over.

MilGunsmith · Jan 9, 2019

You will need the steel liner for rifling.

john.k · Jan 9, 2019

It would have worked for black september,but nowdays the feds use ion sniffers that can detect parts per billion of nitrate,and various other signature profile substances...........at the time,I made a xray undetectable for a TV program......using a resin /glass fibre,and a 410 shell as the liner.......hence it was reloadable............but ,the thing was that all the 9/11 incident needed was a $2 cutter,and no Bond style gear at all.

sealark37 · Jan 9, 2019

Another solution searching for a problem.

UncleFrank · Jan 10, 2019

When I see carbon wrapped barrels they appear filament wound. As stated you'll need a bore liner other than just carbon. The resin matrix and the actual carbon fibers themselves are pretty soft stuff compared to barrel steel.

Anything you try without a liner will require some kind of mandrel to lay up to. Getting that out after cure won't be easy.

john.k · Jan 10, 2019

Bit of a correction.....memory fail........the point was that the device was undetectable by the existing loop and portable metal detectors ,but could be seen on X ray. The program was ,I think,sponsored by the vendors of a x ray machine suitable for airports....I think it took 9/11 to get the far more costly X ray technology accepted.....People wernt keen on radiation in those days...now they dont seem to care.

GGaskill · Jan 11, 2019

I don't do airports very often so I can't really say much about current airport security technology, but I have been in a court house a couple of times recently and while they xray your stuff, they only metal detect your body. I don't think they are xraying people yet.

john.k · Jan 11, 2019

I think the problem with the Xray tech now is that its too good......The operator can effectively peel layers of clothing ..like a cat scan...

michiganbuck · Jan 11, 2019

I could make a single shot gun that would get past security but would never, never, never discuss it here because there are so many crazy people now a days..

The world is getting so stupid even pocket knives are getting out lawed ...

Soon the belt buckle prong will require a 1/8 " radius,

And safety pins will be against the law,

along with sharp pencils,

and pointing one's finger.

LKeithR · Jan 11, 2019

Mram10 said:
Try it with a long string and video so we can learn from it

Yup, for sure we want to see a good video; two or three different camera angles would be best...

michiganbuck · Jan 11, 2019

Some dumb guys have lost a finger or thumb holding a fire cracker by hand..

Sounds like a home made test gun project is in the same ball park.

I will stick to my old SW 38...

john.k · Jan 11, 2019

Publishing instructions on the net sufficient for a T/ro /ist to produce a weapon can get you a long term in the federal pen at worst, or a visit from the men in black ,just about anywhere ,nowdays......Consequently, I am always vague or obtuse with anything I put on the net in relation to these old projects............legal in their day,when law enforcement was done with common sense...not now that the zealots have taken over on both sides.

Steven-Canada · Jan 12, 2019

michiganbuck said:
I could make a single shot gun that would get past security but would never, never, never discuss it here because there are so many crazy people now a days..

The world is getting so stupid even pocket knives are getting out lawed ...

Soon the belt buckle prong will require a 1/8 " radius,

And safety pins will be against the law,

along with sharp pencils,

and pointing one's finger.

too late

Disney employees 'banned from pointing with index finger while at work' | London Evening Standard

crij · Jan 14, 2019

I am surprised no one has mentioned the two small elephant in the room with this idea.

Temperatures, the burning blackpowder will burn off layers of the epoxy each time it is shot.

The second one was lightly mentioned but not the critical part of it, shock loading. When the shot is fired the pressure spikes immediately, last I checked carbon fiber doesn't like instantaneous shock loads. To see what I am talking about, take a carbon fiber rod and smack it on the corner of a cinder block wall, it shatters. The same thing will happen in the first mm past the end of the case, as soon as the projectile leaves it and starts running down the barrel.

Rich C.

Black powder barrel of carbon fiber?

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Titanium

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