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  1. #1
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    Default Bullets in flight visible

    I just watched a program about the recent terrorist attack on a Nairobi shopping mall.

    Al-Shabab terror attack in Nairobi shopping district angers Kenyans - Washington Times

    The mall has very good surveillance cameras, sharp pictures instead of the blurred ones we often see. Several times the terrorists fired their AKs and long streaks could be seen extending from the barrels to the picture's edges. I have seen .22 bullets when the sun was exactly right and once saw a .44 bullet in flight, but these are rare occurrences. In the videos, nearly all the streaks were visible. I am guessing that the images imprinted on the CCD pixels and remained there for at least one scan, possible more, which would mean they would be on screen for at least 1/70 second.

    Has anyone else seen this effect?

    Bill

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    The web page doesn't like my browser, but I have seen "bullet trace" - the air trace a bullet leaves when fired from a rifle - at a long range shooting event.
    Are you talking about that or something else?

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    I have seen bullets in flight. It's easiest to see when the sun is lower on the horizon and is at your back. I used to see them all the time when I shot in a pit that had steep limestone walls. Made for good contrast of the copper color of the bullet jacket shining in the sun against the grey limestone. Image persistence in the human eye makes object that appear briefly, to be perceived to persist for a longer duration. It's why if you waive a sparkler or glowing end of a stick at night, you see a trail, even though it should simply be a moving point.

    I think you are seeing the gasses from the muzzle, not the bullet. I can't imagine a standard CCTV camera capturing the bullet itself in flight.

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    Is it possible they were tracers and imparting a ton of photons on the image sensor as they streaked across the picture? Possible they were tracers that were old and the tracer compound was leaving a small smoke trail?

    Otherwise, it's not unusual to see bullet trace if the conditions are right but to see a full trace like that sounds odd.

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    It's pretty easy to see .45ACP in flight if you're directly behind the shooter.

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    The trace was more or less brass colored and they extended from the muzzles to the edge of the frame, probably 10 or so feet away in both cases. The first one was continuous and about the same from one end to the other. It was definitely not air turbulance. The second example was several shots about the same color but interrupted, lines about 6" long with 2" spaces between, like the dashed lines we see on prints.

    As I understand CCD, the cells are receiving light all the time and the scan resets them. If so, all the cells could have received reflected light from the bullets and then read in sequence. Those images would stay on the computer screen until the next scan. In each case, the flight was roughly horizontal so that the row would be scanned close together.

    After typing this, it occurred to me to look for a video on the net. This is not the one I saw on TV and the streaks do not look quite the same, possibly from lighting differences.

    YouTube

    look at 24, 25 and 48 seconds.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    The trace was more or less brass colored and they extended from the muzzles to the edge of the frame, probably 10 or so feet away in both cases. The first one was continuous and about the same from one end to the other. It was definitely not air turbulance. The second example was several shots about the same color but interrupted, lines about 6" long with 2" spaces between, like the dashed lines we see on prints.

    As I understand CCD, the cells are receiving light all the time and the scan resets them. If so, all the cells could have received reflected light from the bullets and then read in sequence. Those images would stay on the computer screen until the next scan. In each case, the flight was roughly horizontal so that the row would be scanned close together.

    After typing this, it occurred to me to look for a video on the net. This is not the one I saw on TV and the streaks do not look quite the same, possibly from lighting differences.

    YouTube

    look at 24, 25 and 48 seconds.

    Bill
    and 154s poping that guy on the floor

    That we need to get serious and start Hanging such bad guys. See someone hang and lot likely to do the crime..

    Life in a jail with visitation with your buddies and three square meals is not deterrent.

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    Looks for all the world like you'd think a tracer would look (I've never fired one) - and why would terrorists bother with tracers?

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    I've been an long and extreme long rifleman since I was 12. "bullet trace" or "vapor trails" off bullet can near always be seen, so long as the bullet is super sonic. The trick is to get immediately behind the bullet, and near as close to bore line as possible with (good) optics. In sniper competitions, my spotter, or if I'm spotting sits immediately behind the shooter. The optic It lowered as much as possible to the height of the bore line, without the shooter blocking in the view. This is how awesome and world class long range competition teams can call a shot correction to the shooter before the bullet actually get's to the impact area. (Obviously only possible at near 1000 yards and beyond.

    Ballisticians and physicists debate what causes the phenomenon. Some are in the camp that the shock wave atomizes/boils the moisture in the air, others are in the camp that is the shockwave on the bullet is distorting the light waves....

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    ...
    As I understand CCD, the cells are receiving light all the time and the scan resets them...
    No and sort of. The internal refresh may be way higher than the sent out frame rate.
    Also wonder why you think this CCD and not CMOS.
    Lots of light here, the camera would clamp the integration time way down to stay out of saturation.
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    and 154s poping that guy on the floor

    That we need to get serious and start Hanging such bad guys. See someone hang and lot likely to do the crime..

    Life in a jail with visitation with your buddies and three square meals is not deterrent.
    Problem is they want that. Dying in public for their sick god is about the best end they can have. I favor beating them to death with a pig carcass.

    Bill

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    Dying on a rope with no fanfair ,, not even their name said..just a terrorist was hung today . then his body laid to read on top the garbage pile for the birds and rats to spread far and wide..(so he/she cant go to La La land.) This was an old First Nation way to get rid of some who might come back to haunt you.

    I used to have fun with 8mm tracers. cant seem to find them anymore.

    OH there they are $25 a box.
    COLLECTORS AMMO | Product Categories | Allegheny Arsenal

    Great Lakes First Nation tribes:
    Indians in the Great Lakes region

    It is said Etienne Brule' went this way with bones spread far and wide..

    His story:
    Etienne Brule Gets Cut Up Into Pieces And Then Eaten

    That must have worked because he never came back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryan_machine View Post
    Looks for all the world like you'd think a tracer would look (I've never fired one) - and why would terrorists bother with tracers?
    They're readily available as comm-bloc surplus in many places.

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    I've seen some video shot from the turrets of tanks as the main gun is fired. The rounds are clearly visible traveling through the air. It is not like the vapor trail in the video linked above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post
    Problem is they want that. Dying in public for their sick god is about the best end they can have. I favor beating them to death with a pig carcass.

    Bill
    nah feed em to the pigs live ending up as pig crap is scare to them

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    (I've a soft spot for Garands) This one's kinda cool to see it spiraling through the air and hitting the mark.

    Seeing the bullet from behind isn't too uncommon. From the side, I think the air trace is the closest your human eyes/mind can catch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    and 154s poping that guy on the floor

    That we need to get serious and start Hanging such bad guys. See someone hang and lot likely to do the crime..

    Life in a jail with visitation with your buddies and three square meals is not deterrent.
    and a guaranteed recidivism rate of 0.

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    yes; I could watch my 45ACP bullets in flight when the light was right.

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    I've seen skyrockets in flight. It was an afternoon delight.

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    Something else occurred to me. How hot are bullets? Many cameras are sensitive to infrared. We may be seeing the bullet itself glowing. Between powder burning, barrel friction and air friction, there must be a lot of heat generated. The difference between muzzle energy and 100 yards would be an indication and that could be related to the mass of the bullet to make an estimate.

    Bill

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