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Buying a Mill/Lathe: What to get?

Ouija

Plastic
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Hello gents,

I've got about $10,000 saved up to buy the tools I need to really get started building guns from parts kits. I already have my FFL and Class II SOT. I have a couple of AK's and a 1919A4 to build and I'd like to do various gun building and gun work for a living at some point. I don't want to spend more than about $7,000 on a mill and lathe together so that I have enough left over for a shop press, etc. I was originally considering a Smithy Granite due to space constraints. Now I'm leaning more toward getting separate machines from Precision Matthews. Perhaps a PM-25MV and a PM-1440 or 1340GT? Obviously I won't get a second chance at this and don't want to make a poor decision that I'll likely regret for decades. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!
 
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First, spend a couple months reading the General, Shop Management and Owner Issues, and Gunsmithing forums here at PM.
There must be something about the holidays that motivates people to get started pursuing their dreams. I started exactly a year ago. The difference is, I have a decent job, and no delusions of making a living as either a machinist or a gunsmith. Strictly a hobby for me.
Hobbyists are tolerated here, as long as you aren't asking about Chinese machines.
When people tell you that you will spend as much on tooling as on the machines, they are not kidding.
Real Machinists have clever solutions for everything. Owning machines does not make you a machinist.

You can get second changes at many things. They just cost you time and money.
 
First, spend a couple months reading the General, Shop Management and Owner Issues, and Gunsmithing forums here at PM.
There must be something about the holidays that motivates people to get started pursuing their dreams. I started exactly a year ago. The difference is, I have a decent job, and no delusions of making a living as either a machinist or a gunsmith. Strictly a hobby for me.
Hobbyists are tolerated here, as long as you aren't asking about Chinese machines.
When people tell you that you will spend as much on tooling as on the machines, they are not kidding.
Real Machinists have clever solutions for everything. Owning machines does not make you a machinist.

You can get second changes at many things. They just cost you time and money.

Well thank goodness you were able to inform me that my dream is a "delusion" and that I don't have a "decent" job. You were a big help.
 
He above all means: USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have a person every two weeks starting a thread about "best manual lathe and or mill to buy for approx 5k". It gets old fast. Don't be out off: just do your due diligence by researching this exact topic in the archives. Hundreds of good responses. This site is a treasure trove of extremely detailed/useful info. Good luck in your endeavors.
 
Well thank goodness you were able to inform me that my dream is a "delusion" and that I don't have a "decent" job. You were a big help.
If you review my post, you'll see I was not making judgments about you. I is a first person pronoun, referring to me. All I know about you is that you admitted to considering a 3 in 1 machine. Hence, you need education, and you have come to the right place.

Maybe in somewhere in KY, gunsmithing is a good career. Round here, a gunsmith will see every piece of broken down shit, abused in every manner imaginable, brought in by folks wanting it fixed for $20, because it would be worth a hundred and a half if it was pristine, which it won't be after you fix it for $50.
 
When I got my first lathe, about 20 years ago.

A machinist friend of my son's was down to the house.

I asked him , how long it would take him to teach me how to run it.

He took one step back. looking me over real good and said

"I don't think you are going to live that long but I can make you dangerous

in an hour"

I don't believe I have ever passed the dangerous stage. Kenny

If you are asking what to buy, you have a long way to go.
 
Well to actually manufacture stuff you almost have enough of a budget to buy the software maybe.
The y axis live tooled cnc lathe will run you well over 100K

well you could build a semi auto 1919a4 full well have to get a stamp and you couldn't transfer it
and so on

Do you even need machine tools to "build" an AK isn't that just putting parts kits together like
an AR?

Lathe well you need one with a taper attachment big enough hole in the head stock and about 40 inch bed
16X 40 imports will do you ok the 14X 40s tend to be on the flimsy side. There are better deals quality and price wise then Grizzly.
mill can't go wrong with the good old BP or clone both should have DROs
a good used one is fine for both

give up and figure you will have 3 phase machines run a phase converter
 
Do you even need machine tools to "build" an AK isn't that just putting parts kits together like
an AR?

No, nothing like ar's. A lot of ar's can be assembled with basic tools.

Most ak's and a lot of com block weapons need at least some form of machine work. Front sight block, gas block, as well as barrel itself must be pressed in. This could require lathe work for barrel, and fitment.
As well as the parts are cross drilled for retaining pins, rivets and such. I know some also make their own pins on lathes.
 
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I should have pay little more on the mill and get one with a knee.
I dont use the tapper attachement very often on the lathe, but realy usefull when I need it.
 
The only way your gonna get any machines worth a $hit is to buy some old iron. New manual machines mostly suck at your price point.

Start looking at auctions, craigslist, ebay, and local papers.
 
Ouija,
This question comes up a lot and you will find that it has been answered many times, usually with the same advice.

Here is the only help I can give.

You can get into gun-smithing with no power tools at all but you will be restricted to assembling kits or carrying out really small jobs.

The old Masters like Ackley seemed to have managed fine with what, to us, would look like a very simple lathe. That lathe was probably in top condition and very intelligently used.

We seem to need more sophisticated devices than the Masters used. If you are going to buy this type of machine, a mill or a drill, you are not going to get a worthwhile unit cheaply. First of all the tools that we demand are more expensive to build. The cheaper types are not built well and although they may produce some immediate pleasure their weaknesses become apparent and you are soon wishing that you had bought a better quality item. Second, there is a high demand for tools in the capability range we look at. There are not only aspiring gunsmiths, there are model builders, people who hope to make money by doing a little paid machining at home and simply people who want to take up metal cutting as a hobby. All of these people will be bidding against you at the machine shop auctions so prices will be high.

Sensibly, if you want to eventually get into high end gun work such as barrel replacement or custom manufacturing you are going to spend around $20,000 on a mill and $10,000 on a lathe alone (used). Add to this about $3000 for the basic tools needed to use with these machines. Add another $2 to 3,000 if you need to upgrade the electrical supply in your shop. Plus whatever else you need.

Start small, make sure you are actually enjoying your work as much as you hoped, then go ahead and buy new tools as required.
 
Ouija,

Sensibly, if you want to eventually get into high end gun work such as barrel replacement or custom manufacturing you are going to spend around $20,000 on a mill and $10,000 on a lathe alone (used). Add to this about $3000 for the basic tools needed to use with these machines. Add another $2 to 3,000 if you need to upgrade the electrical supply in your shop. Plus whatever else you need.

Start small, make sure you are actually enjoying your work as much as you hoped, then go ahead and buy new tools as required.

Gunsmiths were turning out rifle barrels between centers that shot in the low tenths decades ago with South Bends and others.

A lot of crap being spouted in general, that is minutiae, will never manifest itself at the target, and "lesser" equipment can produce barrels that will outshoot 99% of the guys that will drive them.

Too often, .00001 tolerances seem to be talked about, rather than the quality of the barrel, which is by far the most important thing.

A large mill, for barrel work? How so? I do barrel work for a living- and rarely need a mill for anything related to that.
 
tobnpr

"The old Masters like Ackley seemed to have managed fine with what, to us, would look like a very simple lathe. That lathe was probably in top condition and very intelligently used."

I did point out that great work has been done in the past with what would now be considered pretty basic lathes.

"A large mill, for barrel work? How so? I do barrel work for a living- and rarely need a mill for anything related to that."

I never said that a mill was needed for barrel work and it was the OP that said he was looking for a milling option. I did misread the OP title. I read mill/lathe as mill and lathe (individually) rather than as a mill/lathe combination machine.

We do use a CNC mill frequently to carry out conversions to firearms. It is much more efficient, and produces more consistent and accurate work to put the firearm into an accurately made jig and to cut it with a CNC program rather than to set up a part individually each time the job is performed.

The mill cost around $20,000 used. With the use of this mill and the jig we can perform three or four conversions per day whereas before we could only handle one or two a day. We save the customer $$$'s by the reduced machining time and yet still increase our profit margin. When not being used directly on customer projects the mill is used for other work. I take it that you would prefer to do this work with a file?
 
Well thank goodness you were able to inform me that my dream is a "delusion" and that I don't have a "decent" job. You were a big help.
He gave you some good advice. He was telling you that you need to look a bit deeper into your new vocation, both from the posts already made on this topic and the practicality of doing it. If you read further into this site, you will begin to catch the tone that is in the air.

There's no need to get upset. When you ask for assistance on this site, you take what you get and often, you will get more than you bargained for.

Keep smiling.
 
I hope I am not about to ruin your day, but you did not mention having one thing that you need to have. In order to manufacture in addition to your 07 and SOT you need an ITAR registration which runs about $2,600 a year. The ATF will not tell you this because it is not their law, it is a state department law. There are a ton of people who will tell you you don't need this unless you are exporting. They are wrong. Any manufacturer of a product that falls under ITAR is required to have this even for non-firearm products like optics. If you need the chapter and verse on the law let me know and I'll look the section up for you.
 








 
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