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    Default clearances

    Had posted previously regarding a sentimental military that was unsafe. Bolt is so loose in receiver trigger sear will not reliably engage the firing pin. Has a new Timney trigger. Have discounted any simple solution. I have the experience and means to manufacture a new bolt that fits all features within .002 clearance. Material to be 130,000 PSI yield. Am receptive to PROFESSIONAL gunsmith opinions with FIRST HAND experience in such an endeavor. Please, no hobbyist hacks.

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    Not a gunsmith, but why throw money and custom parts. at some old sentimental military "wall hanger" firearm that is already sloppy and unsafe?

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    Default Why

    Quote Originally Posted by donie View Post
    Not a gunsmith, but why throw money and custom parts. at some old sentimental military "wall hanger" firearm that is already sloppy and unsafe?
    Why? Because the gun was my father's course project as a student of PO Ackley at Trinidad. The custom stock and metal work are remarkable for a student lending logic that PO had his hand in it. The gun has been uncannily lucky having killed a lot of deer. Was retired when wear caught up with it and my father about the same time.

    Again, I'm seeking professional feedback.

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    I would recommend specifying your request for opinions. Your request is very open ended and nondescript. I’m left wondering what you want an opinion about. You mentioned ‘the endeavor’ but what part of it? You say that you have the means to produce the part...one would assume you have the know-how too.

    Perhaps consider narrowing to something like:
    Opinions on building a bolt or buying a production bolt with x-tolerances and x-action type with x-shooting environment, x-MOA goal, etc etc.

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    Most military actions have loose bolts,for operational reliability....98 Mausers have quite loose bolts......In some cases ,replacement bolt bodies were made oversize,and often wont fit an as new gun ......the boltway has to be honed or reamed out.......Swedish 96 Mausers are an example of this where replacement bolt bodies are available,and wont fit as new rifles with bolts missing............the commonest example of really loose bolts would be Spanish made Mauser rifles..... .Oviedo and Cataluna made 1893s the worst,,and often used for sporterizing in the past due to very cheap prices..

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    Just as I anticipated. Forum trolls unable to resist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 fingers View Post
    Just as I anticipated. Forum trolls unable to resist.
    Wow with that attitude your for sure gonna get lots of Professional help. Ever think of the fact that most professionals aren’t working on milsurp sporters now a days since they are charging professional prices to work on barnards, Borden, and other high dollar actions since the average person paying their fee is not playing around with sporter milsurps. Harry home shop is probably your best bet.
    That said sounds like your problem is more than likely wear in the sear/ trigger that has developed and not wear on the bolt body which I’ve never seen except where someone went crazy with polishing. In fact instillation of a timney trigger would probably fix your issue if they still make them.
    Might want to look up bolt shimming and Borden bumps if you want to tighten up the bolt fit that’s easier than making a new bolt.
    If you go about making your own bolt remember the head/ lug area needs to be harder than the rest of the bolt, but you know that right ?
    When you finish it up give us a follow up
    I seriously would like to see it

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    I see from your first post that it has a new Timney trigger in it. Check to see if the trigger adjustments are correct. Lot's of trigger problems are caused by triggers being messed with by inexperienced people trying to get light pulls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 fingers View Post
    Just as I anticipated. Forum trolls unable to resist.
    As an experienced professional rifle builder who graduated from Trinidad, I recommend you buy one of the many custom actions available on the market and hang your dad's rifle over the fireplace. It sounds like it's earned the retirement.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by pat_j0nes View Post
    As an experienced professional rifle builder who graduated from Trinidad, I recommend you buy one of the many custom actions available on the market and hang your dad's rifle over the fireplace. It sounds like it's earned the retirement.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

    Is that what they teach at Trinidad? I can't fix it so buy a new one? Not one poster has offered the slightest explanation of why a formerly effective and reliable rifle suddenly can't get the job done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 fingers View Post
    Had posted previously regarding a sentimental military that was unsafe. Bolt is so loose in receiver trigger sear will not reliably engage the firing pin. Has a new Timney trigger. Have discounted any simple solution. I have the experience and means to manufacture a new bolt that fits all features within .002 clearance. Material to be 130,000 PSI yield. Am receptive to PROFESSIONAL gunsmith opinions with FIRST HAND experience in such an endeavor. Please, no hobbyist hacks.
    Could you specify the make and model of the action?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    Is that what they teach at Trinidad? I can't fix it so buy a new one? Not one poster has offered the slightest explanation of why a formerly effective and reliable rifle suddenly can't get the job done.
    Yes, as a graduate of TSJC, I can tell you that is what they would recommend on these "sentimental" gun projects. They can often involve lots of time and effort, which is almost never compensated time.

    If you are going to run a gunsmithing shop as a business (which is what they teach at TSJC), then you have to become good at knowing what work will be unprofitable from the get-go and turn it down. Where I can break even, I will take in "sentimental" projects. Where the work vastly exceeds what the customer is willing to spend, I make recommendations similar to the above.

    Examples of work I've turned down: shotgun barrels on an antique SxS that are so pitted the gun is unsafe to fire. One solution I offered the owner was that we slip in some Briley tubes, and turn a 12 gauge into a 20 gauge. That would have worked, but it would have been a $1200+ (at that time) cost to tube both barrels. The customer blanched at the price, and asked how much I'd charge to TIG weld the pits - of which there were dozens. I said "Eh, $65 per hour, probably five hours to prep and weld, then another couple of hours to strike the barrels down, then another three hours to polish them out, and another two to blue. Call it 12+ hours at $65/hour. Bottom line it at $750."

    Still too much. By this point, I already had an hour of work and education into the job with the customer that I could have been using to work on other things - and I didn't charge for that hour.

    As I said, these jobs become unprofitable, very quickly.

    As to why I'm not offering any assistance (yet), it is because like so many questions by the only partially knowledgeable in the gun world, lots of salient details have been left out. Make, model of firearm for starters. Then I'd want to know if the bolt body itself is worn - ie, we'd start taking measurements of diameter along the bolt body to see if, where the bolt body passes through the rear ring of the receiver, is the bold worn/dented/etc to allow the bolt to wiggle and allow the bolt's cocking piece to ride up and over the sear? OK, if the bolt's body is of consistent diameter, what about the rear ring of the receiver? Is the raceway wallowed out where the bolt goes through the rear ring? If the rear ring is wallowed out, making a new bolt might not fix the problem unless the poster is willing to machine a "bulge" into the bolt body at that point.

    Next we get to the cocking piece: Is it worn, rounded off, etc? Then the trigger mounting. Then the trigger model itself - is this the correct model Timney trigger for this rifle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    Is that what they teach at Trinidad? I can't fix it so buy a new one? Not one poster has offered the slightest explanation of why a formerly effective and reliable rifle suddenly can't get the job done.
    Yes. actually. I was taught to make parts and heat treat, but I was told never to make anything that you can buy. This is after all, a business.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    I may not be the most experienced in this field, but I would like to learn more.
    Can you tell me what kind of receiver you have? Springfield, Enfield, Mauser etc.

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    Is it just the trigger problem, or is the bolt physically lose? (yes, if a bolt action or what). Does it close on a bullet and to locks secure or is that where it is loose. *Has a gun smith looked at it? I have seen some old military guns that seem loose but are to specs and tight when closed.

    QT:[Has a new Timney trigger.] the right trigger for the gun and setup correctly?

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    For what it's worth, in the coming weeks I plan to machine a new bolt. Believe is chambered for a unique wildcat. Part of the course was to machine your own dies and grind a reamer to rechamber. After 70 years these items are still accounted for. Will post photos of bolt and target group. Sadly, have learned assembling an AR now qualifies someone as a gunsmith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 fingers View Post
    For what it's worth, in the coming weeks I plan to machine a new bolt. Believe is chambered for a unique wildcat. Part of the course was to machine your own dies and grind a reamer to rechamber. After 70 years these items are still accounted for. Will post photos of bolt and target group. Sadly, have learned assembling an AR now qualifies someone as a gunsmith.
    As long as you don't see fit to help us help you, I will offer the following conjecture.
    The receiver was a low numbered 1903 Springfield. They are dangerously brittle and need to be re-heat treated. In doing so your father did it incorrectly resulting in a soft receiver that was susceptible to excessive wear.
    In order to increase accuracy, the trigger/sear engagement was reduced. Not by altering the trigger, but by reducing the firing pin/sear height. Thus the replacement of a new trigger will not correct the problem.
    And manufacturing an oversized bolt is much akin to installing oversized pistons in a worn engine.
    What you really need to do is replace the firing pin/sear, weld up the bolt channel and re-heat treat the receiver.
    I could be mistaken, but I have more experience than you have information.
    This isn't a guessing game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10 fingers View Post
    For what it's worth, in the coming weeks I plan to machine a new bolt. Believe is chambered for a unique wildcat. Part of the course was to machine your own dies and grind a reamer to rechamber. After 70 years these items are still accounted for. Will post photos of bolt and target group. Sadly, have learned assembling an AR now qualifies someone as a gunsmith.

    and yet you still won't provide any pertinent information.
    what action is very important, they all have their own specific set of quarks.
    Mauser bolts are readily available.
    don't know what it's chambered for, try making a chamber casting.
    going to need to know what it's chambered for to get proper head spacing.

    any one who has handled a turk Mauser knows the bolt can be quite sloppy and still function
    properly.

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    The bolt is likely not the problem.

    When your father was at Trinidad aftermarket triggers did not exist, they would have modified the existing parts. The cocking piece was likely modified to reduce sear engagement. I know from first-hand experience that Timney intentionally reduces engagement of the cocking piece as well by lowering the top surfaces of their sears. So what you likely have is two reduced surfaces.

    The fix is not a custom bolt, the fit was always loose. If you still have it, put the old trigger back in. If not, you could replace the cocking piece. I assume the receiver markings have been polished out which is why you haven't given us the specific model information. This, along with possible safety modifications, can make it difficult to source and fit a new cocking piece. You could also call Timney and ask for a taller sear, they have them for some models. The best solution is the original trigger if it is still available.

    The attitudes here tend to drive away the professional gunsmiths. You catch more gunsmiths with whisky than you do with vinegar.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by pat_j0nes View Post
    You catch more gunsmiths with whisky than you do with vinegar.
    He could learn a lot from this....

    Ohhh sorry, do I need to post my credentials to be allowed to post in this thread?

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