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Colt is heading to Florida

I've heard that Colt is getting back into selling AR type guns in CA as a M4.
I've also heard that Colt is just a shell of a company as far as quality goes that it was 20-30 years ago. Any truth to any of this?

Tom
 
Colt has had a very rocky road the last half of the century. The corporate heads and the union both played roles in that. When all other arms companies where flourishing, Colt was struggling with poor management decisions and very poor labor utilization. Maybe the Freedom Group will buy em. :D
 
Friend of mine moved his large shop to Fla. Cheaper land, cheaper taxes, cheaper electric, easier life style, less regulation, local and state gov't brought out the welcoming committee,, tax breaks too.
 
There was an article in the local paper a while back about a gun manufacture looking at possibly moving to Idaho, don't remember if it was Colt but probably was. One of the reasons cited was to move to a more gun-friendly state were people 'appreciated' the product they make. Dunno if that describes FL as well though.
 
I dunno- I have been to Florida many times, and I think it would be a lousy place to manufacture. There is basically NO industrial infrastructure- hardly any suppliers, hardly any heat treaters or polishing shops or galvanizers or machine shops for subcontracting.
Everything would need to be either done in house, or shipped for a couple of days each way.
Most any material beyond simple A36 round bar would need to be special ordered.

Employees would be cheap, sure, but in experienced- very few machine shops, or manufacturers, not good community colleges with machining or manufacturing programs.

If you needed a big industrial circuit breaker, or a CNC machine repairman, or a part for your huge parts washer, or a certain grit wheel for your surface grinder- forget it- mail order only, usually.

So any minor breakdown could mean days of lost work time.

Versus CT- with a couple of hundred years accumulation of industry, everything you need is a few hours away at most.

I personally have found that hiring cheap employees is usually not a savings, but a cost- if you dont have good guys, who know what they are doing, it costs a lot more to make things. And Florida is the drain of the USA- all the hairballs, grit, debris and toenail clippings are circling around.

Not to say I dont like Florida- I do- but I sure wouldnt move a factory there...
 
I dunno- I have been to Florida many times, and I think it would be a lousy place to manufacture. There is basically NO industrial infrastructure- hardly any suppliers, hardly any heat treaters or polishing shops or galvanizers or machine shops for subcontracting.
Everything would need to be either done in house, or shipped for a couple of days each way.
Most any material beyond simple A36 round bar would need to be special ordered.

Employees would be cheap, sure, but in experienced- very few machine shops, or manufacturers, not good community colleges with machining or manufacturing programs.

If you needed a big industrial circuit breaker, or a CNC machine repairman, or a part for your huge parts washer, or a certain grit wheel for your surface grinder- forget it- mail order only, usually.

So any minor breakdown could mean days of lost work time.

Versus CT- with a couple of hundred years accumulation of industry, everything you need is a few hours away at most.

I personally have found that hiring cheap employees is usually not a savings, but a cost- if you dont have good guys, who know what they are doing, it costs a lot more to make things. And Florida is the drain of the USA- all the hairballs, grit, debris and toenail clippings are circling around.

Not to say I dont like Florida- I do- but I sure wouldnt move a factory there...

Are you basing any of that on actual, first hand experience? I only ask because I had a shop there any never had any of those issues you speak of. Who knows? Maybe I'm just lucky. Granted, it's taken a hit in the last few decades, but there's a fairly good base of Industrial, Aviation, Marine, Automotive, and Firearms manufacturing...:scratchchin:
 
No, not on personal experience, just on my observations on trips there. I look for used machinery dealers, or tool dealers, or industrial neighborhoods, whenever I go anywhere, from Singapore to Turin- and I have been to Miami many times, and found it pretty thin on the ground compared to the northeast, and cannot imagine that Kissimmee, a town of only 59,000, is not a lot thinner than Miami.
For instance, there seems to be only one plater in the whole county.
Versus how many within a couple hours of West Hartford?

Hey, I could be wrong, I have been wrong plenty of times in the past, but its not a location I would choose.
 
I lived in the Tampa area in the middle 80s and at that time a shop in Naples was making the barrels for M16s. I remember a lot of small shops in the area.
 
I dunno- I have been to Florida many times, and I think it would be a lousy place to manufacture. There is basically NO industrial infrastructure- hardly any suppliers, hardly any heat treaters or polishing shops or galvanizers or machine shops for subcontracting.

If you needed a big industrial circuit breaker, or a CNC machine repairman, or a part for your huge parts washer, or a certain grit wheel for your surface grinder- forget it- mail order only, usually.

So any minor breakdown could mean days of lost work time.

Versus CT- with a couple of hundred years accumulation of industry, everything you need is a few hours away at most.

I personally have found that hiring cheap employees is usually not a savings, but a cost- if you dont have good guys,

Not to say I dont like Florida- I do- but I sure wouldnt move a factory there...

I get most of my parts & supplies UPS,, get them next day. I'm not going to waste time driving to MSC/Grainger/Mcmaster to pickup a part/supplies. Same for materials,, just keep enough bar stock on hand. Plenty of material suppliers in the state anyway.

BTW, the Kennedy space center is in Fl,, so there must be some "good" guys in the state.
 
Colt has long had a history more directed to military supply where other arms makers in the USA have used the sporting end as their backbone. As war has changed, the role of the foot soldier has declined a lot as with the types of armament they carry. A lot of which is now made off USA soil due to the shrinking planet. I don't know that the unions are entirely responsible for Colts suffering. Unions have always been a thorn in the side of corporations and are an obvious money drain. For every person you hire, you also are hiring 1/10th to 1/4 of a highly paid adviser for that person. Who, for all intent and purpose are simply dead weight to the company. The biggest drain we have seen in Canada with unions is that the unionized companies often become welfare dumps. People get into the system who turn out to be dead weight and it is simply impossible to get rid of them. Also, in a lot of cases workers are paid top salaries for work that could easily be preformed by a 6 year old child. Over time the situation worsens and gets to a point where the company is no longer solvent and begins to be subsidized by the taxpayers. The common laws of business that state that non productive units should be brushed aside to allow productive units to operate better and more productively no longer applies in our plastic society. China has long held a centralized labor system that has been more directed towards the well being of its corporations than directly to its workers. Much like the old labor unions that once existed in the USA. Everyone gets a little, enough to get by on, but no one gets a lot, and protecting the goose that lays the golden eggs is the prime consideration. This has down sides too. If individuals can not get ahead there is no money or incentive to start new business which eventually leads to foreign corporate investment. Their position in the world market reflects this attitude right now, and china is very much where the USA was at the beginning of its industrial revolution. Their labor laws are in a state of flux now since the introduction of the ACFTU reorganization. It would be interesting to see where this leads to and if China's position in the world market falls as it has in other countries as labor laws shift. The time may come when Colt, like a lot of other arms companies may have to be absorbed by shakedown companies like the Freedom group and face some massive restructuring if they wish to keep the name alive. The world trend toward disarmament is growing exponentially at almost every level. What we take for granted today may be just a line in a history book in 100 years for now. We can pretend it isn't there. But in 100 years we wont be there either so change will come regardless of how loudly we scream. I guess seeing these once great corporations struggling is really just a part of changing times.
 
"Versus how many within a couple hours of West Hartford?"

Only trouble Ries, is that one could order a part from panama city FL and get it in hand,
before one could *drive* through hartford on 84!

And here I do speak from agonizing experience. I'll drive halfway around the world the
other way just so's I don't have to drive through hartford. Or, these days, waterbury
as well!

:)
 
I'm currently working on rebuilding a lot of surface grinders in a Chicago suburb for a company that makes parts for Colt as their sole customer. About 75 people running machines and assembling parts. No receivers or barrels, just all the little things inside. sorry no pics
 
You guys sure have a nasty opinion of Florida.

There is a heat treater right here in Jax, that I know does a LOT of AR parts heat treating. Been there, saw them. Not all they do, they just either do a lot of them, or that was the week that they got their only delivery, I don't know.
There is a LARGE material distributor in Orlando that supplies either most or ALL of Florida with truckloads every day. (AlRO)The shop I worked in here, got a lot of our supplies from them, what didn't come from Tull right here in Jax. All were next day after ordering, so they must have the stuff in stock in Orlando.
Granted we don't have a concentration of machine shops, but heck we could almost put CT, Va, De, Ma etc within our borders. (that is just an example, I really didn't do the square mile comparison). We probably have as many schools with tech programs as any other one of those states.
Within a days drive for us, starts somewhere in Tn, Tx, Va, can anyone in CT say that? There are heat treaters galore well within that range, and as far as machine support, is there anywhere a Mazak rep can't be in a matter of hours, much less days? (or whatever brand machine they decide to purchase). There are airports in and around Kissimee that will support flights any time of day or night. Can you say that about CT?, and say a part will be on a flight to them within an hour and be at their doorstep an hour after the plane hits the ground? Heck, has anyone heard of Mickey Mouse? They have a major operation somewhere in Florida and all of that machinery requires competent workers. Seems to work for them.(just because it is also in Kissimee, might say something???)
Land for a business like this would probably be less than 100 acres, but what the heck, splurge and get 300 to put new business' nearby that supports your shop. There is a lot of land in and around Kissimee and the nearby counties open to develope. A lot of orange groves killed off or just gone...
Ceiner is just a few miles away, over in Titusville on the coast.
Kissimee traffic has gotten worse over the last few years, but if you know how to negoitate Orlando traffic, it is not a problem. Coming into Kissimee via the non traditional routes that most of the tourists takes, makes it an easy delivery. Here to Kissimee is like driving from Concord to Hartford, as far as milage,a simple 2.5 hour drive for most truck drivers, but can you do that in a truck from Concord to Hartford? Cars can do it faster, so no comparison...Heck, I don't think you could get around Boston in half that time except at night, lol.
I am sure Colt didn't make that decision on just labor costs, but maybe the costs of heating coupled with the number of snow days that employee's loose, though a few hurricane days might needed to be considered, lol.

Rant off...
David from jax
 
Subbing out work is not a simple thing for a company licensed to mfg firearms, you cannot just make up 100 receivers then drop ship them for heat treat.

There is only one part that is regulated and that is the receiver. A few machining centers and in house heat treatment, (one process would not be that complicated) and in house anodize and you're ready. Every other part can be out sourced and no FFL required for your venders.
 








 
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