Drilling to make barrels

Guerillashop · Feb 7, 2018

Is it possible to deep hole drill to make a barrel without using a gun drill? .......and how

BSCustoms · Feb 7, 2018

They made barrels for a long time before the "gundrill" was invented.

Look up D bit Drills. Or Half Round drills.

Monarchist · Feb 7, 2018

BSCustoms said:
They made barrels for a long time before the "gundrill" was invented.

Look up D bit Drills. Or Half Round drills.

Which can still work, if you have enough TIME, and, to be fair, are simply the earliest form OF what were to become "gun drills" as we know them, now.

Conceptually, the whole tribe substitutes BETTER self-supporting, self-guiding "goodness" - generated by itself as it progresses - for any reliance on stiffness of the shank.

ALL drills do that to an extent, BTW.

Thats why we call them drills rather than boring-bars.

Some just do it better and deeper than others.

Wise to read-up on it BTW. Asking your blanket-sharer about all that can have unintended consequences. DAMHIKT.

trevj · Feb 7, 2018

Guerillashop said:
Is it possible to deep hole drill to make a barrel without using a gun drill? .......and how

Yes.

Being careful. Accepting that you will lose the odd one, esp. at first. Spending a LOT of time backing out the drill to clear chips.

I have read that Harry Pope used twist drills on an extension to drill many of his barrels. Much care and attention in setup.Much of his gear was said to be crude and simple. But he learned to use it to his best advantage.

But gun drills are pretty cheap, and suitable pressure pumps are in almost every car or truck (power steering pumps) if you don't mind running slower than the guy that has the proper gun drilling machine.

Cheers
Trev

Monarchist · Feb 7, 2018

trevj said:
But gun drills are pretty cheap, and suitable pressure pumps are in almost every car or truck (power steering pumps) if you don't mind running slower than the guy that has the proper gun drilling machine.

+1 "modern" gun drills started going cheaper and cheaper (relatively) nearly fifty years ago. Advances kept obsoleting one generation after another. No foul. The just-obsoleted ones HAD worked. They still do.

Slower than the top-end equipment is very tolerable.

Also still a lot of pain for too little gain, given how many folks make right decent to astonishingly good already-rifled blanks FOR us.

Guerillashop · Feb 7, 2018

All good info. Thanks. Really the project is about doing it on the cheap to get SOME kind of success then to add $$ to improve quality and turnover (as in speeding things up) btw home job not for customer.

But maybe make the jig to push oil down a used gundrill maybe the way to go on this one. Leads me to the question of running these things at lower speeds ei 1600 rpm. Will this still work?

Thnks in advance

Monarchist · Feb 7, 2018

Guerillashop said:
All good info. Thanks. Really the project is about doing it on the cheap to get SOME kind of success then to add $$ to improve quality and turnover (as in speeding things up) btw home job not for customer.

But maybe make the jig to push oil down a used gundrill maybe the way to go on this one. Leads me to the question of running these things at lower speeds ei 1600 rpm. Will this still work?

Thnks in advance

Too expensive for me to even think about. Social Security and a modest retirement pension, I'd be forced to cheap-out and buy ready-made barrels. So far, I've had to go the cheaper way, yet, and buy them as fully finished firearms, even.

I've recently twigged to that recruiting Sergeant back in '65 having LIED when he said that if I enlisted "RA", I'd live forever.

Ray Behner · Feb 7, 2018

I think your feed rate is far more important than your rpm. Here's my Sheldon with a Sterling gun drilling setup. The feed rate for this ½" drill is .0008" per rev. The harder the material, the less feed. The smaller the diameter, the less the feed.

Gun drilling on engine lathe - YouTube

elysianfield · Feb 7, 2018

trevj said:
Yes.

Being careful. Accepting that you will lose the odd one, esp. at first. Spending a LOT of time backing out the drill to clear chips.

I have read that Harry Pope used twist drills on an extension to drill many of his barrels. Much care and attention in setup.Much of his gear was said to be crude and simple. But he learned to use it to his best advantage.

But gun drills are pretty cheap, and suitable pressure pumps are in almost every car or truck (power steering pumps) if you don't mind running slower than the guy that has the proper gun drilling machine.

Cheers
Trev

Trev,
show me the power steering pump off a Chevy that will pump 3GPM at 1000psi....

ulav8r · Feb 7, 2018

If you run slow enough, you don't need 3GPM.

Guerillashop · Feb 7, 2018

Thanks. Vid explains alot.

I didnt see much cutting oil coming out, are you running some sort of mist coolant/oil ect? Or am i plain blind.

john.k · Feb 7, 2018

I see from your location why you are asking.....a $100 barrel in the US magically becomes a $400 barrel out here.......and thats if anyone can be bothered to import it,with all the paperwork....lots do use powersteer pumps,but many pumps have complex valving in the pump body to reduce power drain at no demand........but steer pumps are also tolerant of slight swarf,roller type anyway,which hydraulic gear pumps arent.Pressure cleaning pumps are also pretty cheap,and should handle soluble oil solution ,or a non oil water base no problem,and pressure rating is ok........the flow is mainly to wash out cuttings.....oily compressed air has also been used at times.......anyone quotes the Pope claim has never tried,its a major PITA......fancy taking a week to drill a barrel........incidentally,Howe claimed the cutting should come out as a single ribbon,puled out by hand.....if the ribbon broke,start again.

Guerillashop · Feb 8, 2018

john.k said:
I see from your location why you are asking.....a $100 barrel in the US magically becomes a $400 barrel out here.......and thats if anyone can be bothered to import it,with all the paperwork....lots do use powersteer pumps,but many pumps have complex valving in the pump body to reduce power drain at no demand........but steer pumps are also tolerant of slight swarf,roller type anyway,which hydraulic gear pumps arent.Pressure cleaning pumps are also pretty cheap,and should handle soluble oil solution ,or a non oil water base no problem,and pressure rating is ok........the flow is mainly to wash out cuttings.....oily compressed air has also been used at times.......anyone quotes the Pope claim has never tried,its a major PITA......fancy taking a week to drill a barrel........incidentally,Howe claimed the cutting should come out as a single ribbon,puled out by hand.....if the ribbon broke,start again.

And bam!!!! U get where im coming from. Yes will start with that. Get a gundrill. Get a pump (have a motor) make the toolpost adaptor. And try drilling.

Next question: any need to ream after gundrilling? I know that (correct me if im wrong) gun drills are supposed drill to size with no reaming req. but as for this being a barrel does it require the finish of a reamer. Leaning towards button rifling if that helps.

john.k · Feb 8, 2018

Yes reaming ,usually three to size,are needed......bore for button rifling must be spot on,and generally needs to be honed too......problems ....cutting speed and feed not available on standard lathe.....carbide drill will chip at too low revs,insufficient fluid will wear corner off drill and,excessive feed will jam drill with cuttings...feed typically less than 1/2 thou /rev.I found reboring worn out barrels to be far easier and more lucrative....as even the steel rods are an ITAR item now.

Ray Behner · Feb 8, 2018

Guerillashop said:
Thanks. Vid explains alot.

I didnt see much cutting oil coming out, are you running some sort of mist coolant/oil ect? Or am i plain blind.

Yes, water based mist coolant.

trevj · Feb 8, 2018

Guerillashop said:
Thanks. Vid explains alot.

I didnt see much cutting oil coming out, are you running some sort of mist coolant/oil ect? Or am i plain blind.

Yep, plain blind.

He shows the mist coolant system in the video. Watch it again. The unit that says "Spray Mist System on the side of it, IIRC.

Re: Pope and Twist drills. <shrug> I wouldn't for a second, claim it was going to be a good idea, or fast, or going to produce good results. Just that it might (eventually) do what the OP asked. Without a gun drill.

Tools that work, is a whole different business than tools that work effectively.Colonial Gunsmith - YouTube is worth a watch. Not because it will show you what you need to know, but because it will show you how much easier things are for us, when we can order in simple tools that are surprisingly complex if you have to develop them by trial and error, and hard earned cash lost on ideas that don't work.

And I gotta say, dude, if you have to ask whether you need to ream the barrel after drilling, you really do have a LOT more homework to do before you spend any time or money at it.

Buy a barrel. Cheap! At almost any price. cheaper than the destroyed tools and materials that will eventually get you there, anyway.

Cheers
Trev

john.k · Feb 8, 2018

There is another system known as "spill boring" that is far cheaper and easier for an amateur than buying and maintaining reamers.......remember all the tooling needs to be maintained,you must have a proper fixture for sharpening deep hole drills,offhand sharpening is for experts.....the balance of cutting forces across the edge is critical.the result is oversize ,or worse jammed drills......and I dont see how a mist system can eject cuttings,unless 1500psi air pressure is used.......the smaller the hole,the longer the hole, more pressure is needed to flush.

Guerillashop · Feb 9, 2018

Plan: gundrill at work then ream, spill bore, lap/hone in the cave (when its not 42c outside and most likely 50c inside)

Thanks all for solid info and pitfalls to avoid.

Btw anyone know of any books about making rifle barrels.

Guerillashop · Feb 9, 2018

May start a new thread on opinions of best way for rifling on the cheap.

Monarchist · Feb 9, 2018

Guerillashop said:
Btw anyone know of any books about making rifle barrels.

Grand read, may not be what you want, but around 60 years ago, IN Pennsylvania, I was able to get one through the library system that covered pre-US revolution crafting of the once-legendary "Pennsylvania" flintlock rifles - predecessors to the "Kentucky" rifle, Kentucky still being part of Virginia in that era, and Pennsylvania only a recent spinoff.

Hot forging of octagonal barrel blanks, colour case-hardening of lockwork parts, and "hook" rifling were well explained. IIRC, it even covered how they made their own tiny lots of High Carbon steel to use for tooling and the files they made for themselves.

Too many years back to remember the title or author, but it would have been published sometime around 1955 or earlier - perhaps MUCH earlier.

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