Has anyone sleeved the chambers of a 1889 six shooter

EJHanson · Feb 2, 2020

Hi , trying to find a way to repair a six shooters cylinder of a 120 year old 44 Cal German made six shooter?
The bullets are very loose in the chambers, it appears that someone center punched the cylinder on the outer diameter
so it would tighten up the bullet in the chamber.
Toying with sleeving each chamber, or ?
Anyone done a repair like that?
Tks

Street · Feb 2, 2020

Being that old i bet i would have been maybe compressed blackpowder charge not a modern powder i wonder if the thing was overloaded with modern powder and the oversize is the result of stretching or yielding of the material that makes up the cylinder.
If so without sticking my neck out, maybe its just a wall hanger and safer being one. Tag it so.

Any other people have thoughts on why it would be oversize? wrong ammo dimensions?

As for a repair take it to a gunsmith to see what his thoughts are.

MilGunsmith · Feb 2, 2020

Slug the barrel to check the bore dimension, it might be an odd size. Previous owner might have been trying to use the wrong ammo.

Kurt Learning · Feb 2, 2020

Pictures always help.
Not all .44s are the same caliber.
If someone has center punched the cylinders, you may have additional issues.
Proceed with caution.
Take lots of measurements.
And consider just machining a new cylinder.
And heat treating it.

thermite · Feb 2, 2020

EJHanson said:
Hi , trying to find a way to repair a six shooters cylinder of a 120 year old 44 Cal German made six shooter?
The bullets are very loose in the chambers, it appears that someone center punched the cylinder on the outer diameter
so it would tighten up the bullet in the chamber.
Toying with sleeving each chamber, or ?
Anyone done a repair like that?
Tks

Wall-hanger.

If you want a "shooter"?

Duplicate it. 100% In modern steels.

Then use underpowered hand loads. Only. The design is suspect as well as the condition.

Show it off next to the NOT to be fired original as a mark of your skill.

No interest in that? Wall hanger.

Plenty of safer modern firearms as will cost less than duplicating it.

EJHanson · Feb 2, 2020

Thanks for all your thoughts, will let you know what the outcome will be.
Cheers!

wyop · Feb 2, 2020

EJHanson said:
Hi , trying to find a way to repair a six shooters cylinder of a 120 year old 44 Cal German made six shooter?
The bullets are very loose in the chambers, it appears that someone center punched the cylinder on the outer diameter
so it would tighten up the bullet in the chamber.
Toying with sleeving each chamber, or ?
Anyone done a repair like that?
Tks

OK, first, the Germans had a service revolver that was "about" a .44 Caliber at that time, but please take careful note - the Germans did NOT use the American/English cartridge specification nomenclature, which results in our ".44 Caliber" using a bullet of 0.429" diameter.

The Germans had a round used in their "Reichsrevolver" service revolvers, the "10.6x25R" cartridge, sometimes called the 10.55mm German. These come out to be about 0.417. The chambers of various Reichsrevolvers could be straight or slightly tapered, and the bore can tend to have deep grooves.

A picture would really help, as would some chamber & barrel measurements. If you have any documentation, I might be able to lend assistance in translating from German, as I can read/write German fairly well and have done a bit of work in translating German gun docs.

john.k · Feb 2, 2020

It may also be a common US caliber of the 1880s,44 Bulldog,also known as 44 Webley,these guns took a very short shell ,about 2/3in long ,case dia 470,bullet dia 440/442......The guns generally stamped "British Bulldog" were continental in origin,and popular in the west due to cheap prices .....half what a Colt cost.

EJHanson · Mar 16, 2020

Just a note to add, this revolver has been repaired and test fired using a gun range and clamp affair.
I wanted to post the video of it but do not have an account with the mediums listed.
Anyway, this old thing is fully functional at this time, however, after watching the video, I don't think I have the guts to handhold and fire!
I think shooting this old 44 could hurt!

john.k · Mar 16, 2020

A wise precaution ..old blacpowder guns are generally soft steel ,and firing with any smokeless charge will often split the cylinder thru the thin walls left when Indexing lock cutouts are made.....If your gun is Belgian ,it will have the well known Belgian EL and ELG proof marks ......note that not all belgian guns were cheap rubbish ,and many English makers put their marks on Belgian guns,and claimed them as their own.....Tranter was a well known maker who was also a prolifc importer of Belgian guns and parts.

EJHanson · Mar 16, 2020

john.k said:
A wise precaution ..old blacpowder guns are generally soft steel ,and firing with any smokeless charge will often split the cylinder thru the thin walls left when Indexing lock cutouts are made.....If your gun is Belgian ,it will have the well known Belgian EL and ELG proof marks ......note that not all belgian guns were cheap rubbish ,and many English makers put their marks on Belgian guns,and claimed them as their own.....Tranter was a well known maker who was also a prolifc importer of Belgian guns and parts.

This is shooting light black powder loads , sorry, I haven't asked exactly what is being used.

akajun · Mar 17, 2020

Ill second the notion that this is more than likely an odd .44 cal cartridge and not an American 44 special, Russian, S&W, 44-40, etc. You need to take measurements of the cylinder bore and length, the gap between the cylinder face and the frame, and slug the bore.
Figuring out the actual caliber would be better and cheaper than making a new cylinder. Even if it is an old BP cartridge and made with softer steel as was common back then you can load it with smokeless powder to reduced levels with soft lead bullets.

john.k · Mar 18, 2020

Find a copy of "Cartridge Conversions" by George C Nonte...very few antique or odd cartridges that are not listed in that book....In any case ,a chamber cast with cerrometal ,and six lathe turned brass cases will get it shooting.......but from the posts ,this has already been done.

EJHanson · Mar 20, 2020

john.k said:
Find a copy of "Cartridge Conversions" by George C Nonte...very few antique or odd cartridges that are not listed in that book....In any case ,a chamber cast with cerrometal ,and six lathe turned brass cases will get it shooting.......but from the posts ,this has already been done.

Hi , just to clarify, it uses German 10.55 mm , which is the same as 44 Russian, I believe.

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