I am an 07/02 and working on a repair to a glock select fire conversion. The sear trip has been made out of 4140 and I am looking for heat treat info. 4140 may not be the best steel for this part, but that's what I had. I don't have an oven so this would be a torch heat and quench. Any suggestions for a rookie heat treater??? Best way to harden the edge of the trip without making the it or the rest of the part brittle? This is a pretty small part btw.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Largest Manufacturing Technology Community on the Web
Stay Connected:
Heat treat for 4140
- Thread starter praff
- Start date
- Replies 43
- Views 8,673
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
If you torch heat a small precision part ,there is a good chance it will be decarburized on the working surfaces.........alloy steels have to be heated to around 850C,and oil quenched.Suggest you consult an engineering handbook.
All the info you can shake a stick at
414 High Tensile Steel | Interlloy | Engineering Steels + Alloys
Cherry Red if you want the "case" surface harder yet
414 High Tensile Steel | Interlloy | Engineering Steels + Alloys
Cherry Red if you want the "case" surface harder yet
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
Good choice of alloy, or not-so-much, I'm just flabbergasted that you have the "credentials" paperwork but no choice of metals, no heat-treat capability nor experience?
I mean.. these are SMALL goods. MANY firearms parts are. Old Dental-sized muffle furnace holds many sizes of 'em. A basic assortment of useful alloys as could last for months if not the year wouldn't strain a steetwalker's stilleto heels if she had to lug 'em about in an oversized handbag.
Guess the recipient is blessed it wasn't particle board as "what you had"?
"Equip thyself!" Heal your own shortcomings first if you expect to heal the wounds of others, huh?
johnoder
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2004
- Location
- Houston, TX USA
That was my wonder. How does one get an 07 FFL (mfg of firearms and ammo) without such knowledge
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
That was my wonder. How does one get an 07 FFL (mfg of firearms and ammo) without such knowledge
That SOT "02" is significant as well, given the "conversion" involved here is a typically $30-$100-plus semi-auto / full-auto creature.
Sort of a "controlled substance" were it pharmacology.
"https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/14/want-to-make-your-glock-full-auto/"
As to "how"? Lie like Hell is cheapest. It's only the internet.
johnoder
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2004
- Location
- Houston, TX USA
Great! The owner can't help but be clueless that he is having a fraud "work" on his investment!
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
Given most of the fuss is for the "airsoft" crowd? There be no real distance to "clueless" in any case.
Just cheaper d**k-swinging than back when a HS classmate got the Seniour Firearms Instructor, PA State Police force, (his own Dad!) banned from their own range.
Having a license for the family Thompson SMG was sorta "offset" by a kid too low in body mass to control it, and having FAR to much fun to even WANT to do, having chopped all the repurposed telly pole target supports and backstops to flinders with several full drum magazines of .45 ACP war-surplus FMJ military ball ammo!
Some State Police Colonels just do NOT have a sense of humour where training downtime and repair-cost MONEY is involved!
72bwhite
Titanium
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2012
- Location
- California, Ventura county
no worries ATF don't care if you know what you are doing.
just that all the paper work is in order.
4140 not a good choice if you want good and hard surface and not be brittle.
just that all the paper work is in order.
4140 not a good choice if you want good and hard surface and not be brittle.
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
"Through hardening" (anything) does have to be used with care.
Part of the reason 8620 has lived over a hundred years so many places just called "ordnance steel".
So long as the legalities are in order, seems daft to not JF purchase it from a proven supplier. Not expensive enough to justify onesie "guess-at-from-scratch" anyway.
Also a potentially "mission critical" device to anyone authorized to even HAVE such. Those not so authorized? May the bird of paradise smokestack-jam your weep-on, first round fired, every go thereafter.
Thanks or all the helpful replies. This is on something that I own and am just getting stated in the 02 side of things. I guess everyone here knew it all when they started.
Great replies....great forum
This is a toy in my shop....if it breaks, its no big deal. I will make the part again and learn something from it.
yes the atf really doesnt care how qualified you are as long as you follow the laws, which i do to the letter.
A simple....4140 probably isnt the best, but .... tool steel would be better... might have been way more to the point and maybe helped someone else reading this. But, we resorted to questioning someones ethics and viability to have a totally legal license to manufacture and distribute firearms.
Great replies....great forum
This is a toy in my shop....if it breaks, its no big deal. I will make the part again and learn something from it.
yes the atf really doesnt care how qualified you are as long as you follow the laws, which i do to the letter.
A simple....4140 probably isnt the best, but .... tool steel would be better... might have been way more to the point and maybe helped someone else reading this. But, we resorted to questioning someones ethics and viability to have a totally legal license to manufacture and distribute firearms.
john.k
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2012
- Location
- Brisbane Qld Australia
Unfortunately,most over 50 dont understand the changes education has undergone.....the theory of modern education is that you attend a course,get a qualification,forget everything immediately,move on the next module of education,get a qualification....and do likewise...This keeps the system ticking over....and computers do all the work......simple eh?
This part cannot be purchased and it definitely isnt an expensive part. A bit of machining involded, but not expensive.
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
Take note "..further hardened by nitriding" and that carburizing is conspicuous by its absence.
Note also very similar rations of Chrome, Nickel, Moly, etc in the recipe for 8260 ordnance steel, but that it IS optimized for carburizing.
"Cherry Red" nor Kasenite before it, wont do much for you on the 4XX tribe.
I am not selling Flexor, and haven't even carried a United Steel Worker's card for 53 years, but here is a handy comparison chart:
FLEXOR Alloy Steel Alternative Advantages & Comparision | Pennsylvania Steel Corporation
Thanks....i am completely new to heat treat and different properties of metals.
For the past five years I have been building 1911 and 2011 pistols from mainly purchased parts so this is all new to me. Forgive my ignorance and I will do some research. I appreciate the links and info.
For the past five years I have been building 1911 and 2011 pistols from mainly purchased parts so this is all new to me. Forgive my ignorance and I will do some research. I appreciate the links and info.
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
A "purchased part" - given, as said, the "legals" are all proper - is the smart way for this even more so.
A 'smith built part - any part - should be crafted and supplied only when the 'smith involved is PROVEN better at it that the store-bought OEM or third-party established supplier is.
One helluva lot of homework needs to be put into that before you can even walk in the door. Let alone out the other side. Head high. Liability low.
Based on the "assembly from" parts and NOT already knowing your alloys in all their respects and already having extensive experience with heat-treating?
I'd not class you a "gunsmith" at all.
An "armourer", rather.
A fitter of the parts of others. Not the creator of said parts.
Never said I was a creator of parts and you are definitely entitled to your opinion. However, there is a little bit more to it than being an armorer on the pistols i “assemble” as you say. To each his own and I am only trying to learn what I can as humbly as I can. Hell, I had never touched a mill six years ago and decided to buy a small cheap cnc and teach myself how to write gcode. I have done nothing more than learn what I need to learn and apply that knowledge to everything I do.
Thanks again for the advice and help.
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
I hear yah, but still. Hard time grokking how you've been making various screws, action pins, firing pins, and the various coil, flat, and hairpin springs and still not have become au fait with alloys and their heat treating? Or even how you can make an ignorant D-drill or D-reamer?
