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Honing jig for Stock AR trigger sears?

CalG

Diamond
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Location
Vt USA
Has anyone seen such a tool offered?

I'm not interested in an assembly jig like the Strike or Brownell pieces.

Something to hold the part and align the honing element that will establish and maintain geometry.

Such devices are available for the 1911, any for the AR?

Hand holding little pieces of steel over sand paper laid on a desk just never seems right. ;-)

TIA

eta

that geometry group of pictures seems to have the images and text a bit mixed up.
 

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It is my understanding that honing the OEM AR trigger was an unsuccessful project when they first came out. Essentially they wouldn't hold the edge and became unsafe after use. You would have to be sure that the current trigger material is not subject to this problem before going that way. My guess is that all of the drop-in replacements have pretty much killed any interest in doing this.
 
Most stock AR triggers are case hardened and stoning them cuts through the case. This results in short life for your "trigger job" and can potentially compromise safety.
 
Most stock AR triggers are case hardened and stoning them cuts through the case. This results in short life for your "trigger job" and can potentially compromise safety.

It's a simple matter to renew the case with Cherry Red.

Shape, renew the case, then hone to final surface.
With a jig to reproduce consistent feature geometry, it would seem trivial.

Every trigger mechanism has a sear, it can not be that only the AR trigger is un-improvable and requires an after market replacement.

The 1911 example has been workable since,,, ahh, 1911 ;-)
 
It's a simple matter to renew the case with Cherry Red.

Shape, renew the case, then hone to final surface.
With a jig to reproduce consistent feature geometry, it would seem trivial.

Every trigger mechanism has a sear, it can not be that only the AR trigger is un-improvable and requires an after market replacement.

The 1911 example has been workable since,,, ahh, 1911 ;-)

Yabbut...ANYBODY can file away on a sear (not the recommended method, I know). Not everyone is going to know the need to reharden, let alone actually figure out how to do it.

I've honed a lot of sears on other firearms, but never one that needed to be rehardened. I'm sure I could do it, but how many would I have to do before I felt confident I was getting it right?
 
I have always bent the legs on the hammer spring to reduce the pressure against the trigger to improve the trigger pull.
I alts used Federal primers which are the softest so I would get reliable ignition and keep a spare stock spring to restore it to the original hammer pressure if I sold the gun.
This was for match use only!
 
Yabbut...ANYBODY can file away on a sear (not the recommended method, I know). Not everyone is going to know the need to reharden, let alone actually figure out how to do it.

I've honed a lot of sears on other firearms, but never one that needed to be rehardened. I'm sure I could do it, but how many would I have to do before I felt confident I was getting it right?

Cherry Red is pretty fool proof. I've used it a bit.
 
I worked up some honing aids using scrap steel and the bench block.
Both parts look good under magnification (binocular mircoscope). I'll wait 'till the lower is done and blue transfer the actual contact. Proof of the pudding is in the tasting.

I have no need of a bench gun trigger. A short 5 lbs pull without notching is all I ask.
That and just a hair of positive engagement to keep things safe.
 
With all the quality triggers for ar’s especially two stage match triggers for reasonable prices why bother
The geometry on a gi ar trigger is not really optimal for a good trigger pull anyway.
 
With all the quality triggers for ar’s especially two stage match triggers for reasonable prices why bother
The geometry on a gi ar trigger is not really optimal for a good trigger pull anyway.

Why bother?

Why not?

Better being the mortal enemy of good enough.

Still, I find pleasure in making mechanical assemblies as good as they can be. Something I've been doing since boyhood. I enjoy it.

Dropping $200 on someone else's idea just doesn't do anything for me.
BTDT, even have the stickers that came with the trigger.

I root for the underdog in sporting events , if that helps. ;-)

eta

If this were a thread about producing an aftermarket AR trigger, would you be the one to say "Why bother" there are so many out there now. Well, there are "so many", I wonder why?
 
With all the quality triggers for ar’s especially two stage match triggers for reasonable prices why bother
The geometry on a gi ar trigger is not really optimal for a good trigger pull anyway.

Would you care to describe geometry changes that would improve the GI trigger as a single stage device?

I could see increasing the radius of the hammer catch/sear to decrease the felt spring force "friction" on the trigger sear.

Other than that, It looks like a 1911.
 
Someone else's opinion on the reasons Why.


"Even though lots of AR shooters can’t wait to drop in a new trigger, there’s a lot to be said for the plain-Jane, factory original. Yes, sometimes you get a creepy or gritty one, especially if you go with a manufacturer that’s not known for mil-spec parts. It works well enough, and there’s very little that can go wrong, as the design has been proven many times over. There’s not much chance it will be so light that you fire it before you intend to due to excitement or stress or adrenaline in a serious situation.
Plus, it’s non-adjustable. Many shooters fall prey to the siren call of the adjustable trigger and adjust themselves to unnecessary problems. There’s always the chance that a perfectly-adjusted trigger somehow slips out of adjustment, exactly when you need it most. Currently, I have three guns with factory original triggers and plans for some more of the same in the future.
These triggers are included with standard lower parts set, like the CMMG Kit so when you’re building a rifle, they really save you some cash. And for many kinds of shooting and shooters, they work well enough.
To put it another way if you just need a truck-gun, to keep a check on hogs or wood chucks, the basic mil-spec will not let you down and maybe be your best AR-15 trigger choice because of their rock solid reliability and low price."

 
That’s just it, you really can’t improve it. It still has so much creep it feels like a double action revolver trigger to me. Even if you cut down the hammer notch or sear engagement and re harden it will not always catch during cycling and you will end up with hammer follow or even a doubling rifle. The first match ar trigger I remember was a Frank White ( now compass lake engineering) conversion to a two stage trigger accomplished by drilling the safety for set screws to give you sear adjustment and the second stage. He didn’t polish the sear surface for fear of cutting into the case. These triggers still required re adjustment and even hammer and trigger replacement as time went on due to sear wear. Bushmaster used this design as their national match trigger but without frank whites hand fitting they were troublesome and have been discontinued.
The next match trigger was the Krieger mizzalatto trigger, a completely new drop in unit that is an excellent durable trigger but is very expensive.
Then came a myriad of single stage match triggers from various manufacturers, all which feel good at first but will eventually loose weight, sear engagement, and safety.
About the best trigger being made now is the Geisselle triggers, especially the two stage match series. Infinitely adjustable and long wearing.
About the best value is the rock river two stage match triggers. Just replace the hammer spring every barrel change and it will always make weight.
Believe me I’m all about the do it yourself improvement, I think we all are here. But I also know where to spend my time or spend my money for maximum benefit .
Btw I’ve been wrenching/shooting AR’s in national match competition for over 20 years and was at camp perry when the AR beat out the M14 for the first time. I have friends that are/were armorers for the military teams and even helped develop some of the products I mentioned. I’m also a certified armorer for my work. None of us use re worked usgi triggers
 
I think we're talking about two completely different but equally legitimate approaches to modifying the AR trigger, and the difference comes down do application and incentive. If I were trying to assemble a match-grade AR, I would definitely look at the wonderful aftermarket offerings mentioned above such as Geisselle. If I am simply trying to improve the basic AR platform that perhaps I am trying to assemble on a budget, as long as I had the capacity and desire to do so, I wouldn't hesitate to modify the stock parts. I don't think it has to be "either/or".
 
JLarsson

You have stated the exact case most clearly. Tip-o-the hat!

I don't desire a match grade trigger for this go.
'Just make the stock parts work as well as they can work, while not spoiling anything or causing an unsafe condition.
Considering the two working pieces can be purchased over the counter for $20, Frequent inspection and replacement may be considered "normal maintenance".

But then, that is where a jig would be most wanted. Parts could be replaced while keeping the same performance and feel. Pieces could be optimized prior to take down. etc.

Besides, I've got the drop ins on the other rifles. Nothing new to see there. And I don't shoot for any reason but pleasure. And very much enjoy bench work.
 
The Power custom jig was produced for many different trigger/sears. I started looking at making a pin setup to hone my low dollar AR trigger using it and started checking to see if it was cheaper buying specialty aftermarket trigger.

Well, when I read about Trigger Tech's roller sear I felt like it was such an obvious answer that I coughed up the $240 and still feel it's such a beautiful idea, and the proof is in the pudding, it's wonderful. It makes as much sense having a carbide roller at the sear to reduce friction as ball bearings do for wheels, not too many seriously want a plain bearing (bronze bushing) wheel bearing after using roller or ball bearing wheel bearings.

Other than that I'm sure you can use a Power Custom jig, it's worth having for many different guns, you'r only limited by your own imagination.
 








 
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